Flooring Tile - Misc Questions (Cutting, Edges, and Exp Joints)

I'm about to start my home tiling project this weekend and just have a few questions before starting. It seems that advice from Home Depot always conflicts with suggestions by the real experts here and I just want to set things straight.

Project info:
Porcelain tile (12"x12"x3/8") over linoleum w/ 1/4" hardibacker
~ 250 sq. ft.
1/4" Spacing
2 areas - kitchen and bathroom/entryway (roughly 16' x 17' and 4' x 12')
Sanded linoleum with baseboard shoes removed

1) I've read in the book "Setting Tile" and from many of you the importance of expansion joints. Regardless of what a few ppl at HD said, I'm going to install them around the perimeter of my kitchen and entryway/bath. Is it OK to tile up to the edge of a transition between tile & carpet and other places where the baseboard won't cover the gap? The perimeter would still be around 70% covered by exp. joints (caulk and filler combo).

2) Do I have any chance at using the tile cutter I bought for straight cuts on glazed porcelain? Or should I return it before using and rent a wet saw? I plan to use HD's wet saw on cuts that aren't straight.

Thanks.

Hi
You'd be much better off if you removed the lino. It's not doing you any favors under there and could actually cause problems. I should ask what you have under the lino though? Plus do you know the joist size and spacing between them? The perimeter joint should be left open for expansion, and it wouldn't hurt to leave a grout joint open in the doorway going into the bathroom and at the transition from the kitchen going down the 12 ft hallway. Fill it with a color matching caulk.
You may be able to snap cut your porcelain with the cutter, you may not...it depends on how hard the tile is. The wet saw may be your best bet, since you'll need one for the non-straight cuts anyway.

Removing the lino from the bathroom area may not be too difficult, but may not. I guess I've heard that as long as it's not compressible and I sand it, everything should be fine. Yes, ideally I would, but again I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into.

The joists are 12" with a solid sub-floor. I've never heard a squeak.

Actually I didn't mention the two areas are separated by carpet. There are a total of three carpet/tile transitions. Currently each is divided by a tack strip. Should I just tile up to it? The tile height will be a bit higher.

Tile over vinyl sticky

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"Can I install tile directly over vinyl wood or linoleum?" is one of the most-asked questions.

If you want it to last, the simple answer is no.

Vinyl's top layer is made of a material, similar to plastic, that no mastic or mortar will stick to very well. Some people will suggest roughing up the surface to get a better bond, but this method has been proven to be unsuitable and is not approved. The level of bonding achieved is still not enough for successful tile installation.

The best course of action is to remove the vinyl completely - for four reasons:

1. You'll have a much better bond to the substrate.
2. Most vinyl is installed over 1/4" plywood, particleboard or luan. They are not approved substrates for the use of tile or natural stone because of their composition and/or performance. They should be no part of a substrate (base) for tile.
3. You will not be able to determine the anchoring pattern of floor underneath the vinyl, which is key to a stable floor.
4. Transitions will be needed where your increased floor height would meet up with the exisiting height of other areas.

Vinyl and linoleum are more compressible than other, more suitable, materials. If you were to install tile on these cushioned floors, it would be unstable and you'd develop cracks in either the tile or the grout.

The argument that vinyl or linoleum is a 'slip sheet', a surface that lets the tile layer move independently from the substrate (since there is no bond), is misleading since it neither takes the compressive nature of vinyl and linoleum into account nor the possible effects of moisture being introduced from beneath.

"Can I put backerboard or underlayment over my linoleum or vinyl and install tile over it?". Again, the answer is no. You have not dealt with the compressive nature of these products and this effect will be transferred through the backerboard to the tile, resulting in failure due to cracking.

Again, the best action is to remove these types of flooring and prepare the floor with methods tested and approved. You'll be one step closer to an installation that will last.

David Taylor

Wow Daniel, quite the detailed response. Since I'll be doing the small area this weekend, I might as well see how bad removing the 4yr old lino is. Guess it's time to buy a floor scraper and some adhesive remover.

- Gregg

Actually, you don't have to worry about the lino adhesive, since you are putting the hardiboard on top. The thin set you use under the hardiboard acts as a support, and will isolate the hardi from the rest of the subfloor. The idea being if the subfloor under the hardiboard moves, the hardi and the tile don't necessarily have to move with it.

Gotcha. I went out a bought a floor scraper last night -- only around 20 bucks. Unfortunately I think the cost of my own labor will be more :)