Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - installing a patio

i'm going to install 18 inch square by 2+one forth inch thick ,i think, in my patio. im putting in 70 squares for my area. what would be a good base for me to start with .i have grass and good ole black dirt.i live in illinois..do i need something different under sand or what? are these 18 inch pavers good to use as patio pavers? i thought they would be excellent. thanks for any input

I found this link this past weekend and it has a lot of good information that you should be able to use.

http://www.paverdepot.com/installation.html#tips

I just put in a 300sqft patio you need to dig about 8 to 10 down and then tamp the dirt as flat as possible with a pitch going away from the house
1 inch pitch per 8 feet,, then add 4 to 6 inches of crushed stone and tamp that down that is when you watch your pitch.. after all that you are ready to lay the patio blocks what you do for this is use concrete sand do not use regular sand. you want about an inch of sand.. use pvc tubes measure the od to be an inch lay them down on the gravel throw some sand in and spread it with a 2x4 down the 2 pipes that will make your sand a perfect depth. but the pavers up tight.. after the are all down tamp them again.. i used polymeric sand over the top of mine spread with a broom and then lightly water and it hardnens make sure it is off of all your stones because it will stick to them good luck hope this helped Rick

what did you use as a edging around the patio? iv'e seen this plastic stuff that you nail in or landscape timbers. are they left on when finished,especially that plastic stuff? my patio will be about 10x 16' rectangular and i'm planning on using 18"x18x 2" square pavers.it should take about 70 at my guestimate. my house,concrete blocke foundation will border about one half of one side,and my porch will border about 8' of one of the other sides. all the rest is open.do you have any recommendations on a edging for me,now that you know what pavers im using and sort of what layout i have. i also have sort of a natural slope,so i won't have to worry much about that,exept compacting it. i have black gumbo dirt as we call it here in the midwest.shouldn't these 18" pavers be pretty fast and easy to work with for this project.? we just pust in a walk with these and it worked out pretty well.

That plastic edging stays on and should have a finished height a little below the top surface of the bricks so it's not too visible.
It needs to stay on to keep the edge bricks from wandering away from the herd. :-)

yes roeboat mark is right I used this edging they call The beast you need to put it on the tampped down gravel also the gravel should should be approx 4 inches out past your edge blocks you will need 12 inch spikes and puond the edgeing in arouns every 2 to 3 ft with the big bolcks you are using should be fairly easy like I said I used 5 different size pavers and may layout was a random pattern.. just put them in where they fit... and break up the straight lines every 4 feet or so.. that is one thing you want to watch out for. lay them like bricks. you may need to make some cuts to do this. I used a diamond wheel on my compound miter saw worked great but dusty mess close the windows I forgot LOL little clean up unside good luck

earlier i was talking about my foundation and porch being borders on two sides of my patio ,but i probably would be better off starting away from both of them with plastic edgers ,wouldnt i? that way i'd have plastic edgers all around..also i hadn't thought about staggering the blocked like bricks and breaking up the staight lines. would that matter that much? as you can tell i have no clue ,thats why on asking. i have already inquired about fill no.2 dirt mix and a plate to tamp with,i have them available. the bricks i am using are red with a black mix in them swirled in. the pattern shouldnt matter much. will it help lock them better if i stagger them every so many feet? with the size blocks im using will that make this project harder or easier as far as cutting and staggering? im sure ill think of something else later.thanks

whats your opinion on using large pavers over smaller ones ? i have not purchased mine yet so i could still go either way .will i have more trouble laying larger pavers as far as staggering them and cutting them?

I would probably go with plastic edging all of the way around to keep it contained....interesting question though. If you go with plastic edging all around, you would probably want to keep it a decent distance away from the foundation and porch so as to leave enough room for a flower bed/box or something to fill that small gap.
ON the one I'm planning on doing, I am going to stop it a couple feet from the house so I don't disrupt my currnet wooden stairs. Then at a later date (next year?), I'm planning on ripping out the wooden stairs and replacing that 2 foot area with some paver stairs. That's the plan anyways....it always seems so easy in my mind.
:-)
As far as locking them, I would think that your sub base (whatever that may be) that you are doing should be solid enough so it wouldn't matter what kind of pattern you do....herringbone or straight style. Just make sure the base is solid and packed hard.

As for small or large? I would think that also comes down to whatever you like better. I have contemplated using large ones in the center of mine and then smaller ones on the outside. Of course the large ones that I am considereing are different thickness than the smaller ones, but there are ways around that...just lay the large ones down for spacing while laying the patio, then after the smaller ones are laid carefully pull up the large ones and build up that area with more sand to get them to the height of the samller ones. Add sand for desire height.

The way I look at it. If you don't like it, you can always lift them up and do it again a different way.
:-)

A month ago I re-leveled my 24"x30" precast concrete sidewalk slabs. BUT this time I found a hand-tool that made the job so much more easy. The tool is call SlabSetters and is designed for exactly the project you are working on. You must go see the tool on their website - I bought mine through an online store that they link to and sells the tool for them.

Their website also provides detailed instruction on how to install these precast concrete sirewalk/patio slabs - if you are looking for instructions on the types of material to use for a sub base or the bedding sands or how deep to dig the base or what to pack and not pack or tips on getting the slab not to wobble - its a good read.

The web site is: http://www.slabsetters.com

The instructions are on: http://www.slabsetters.com/html/installing_slabs.html

Hope that helps - I know the tool sure made my life easier!

yes roeboat mark is right I used this edging they call The beast you need to put it on the tampped down gravel also the gravel should should be approx 4 inches out past your edge blocks you will need 12 inch spikes and puond the edgeing in arouns every 2 to 3 ft with the big bolcks you are using should be fairly easy like I said I used 5 different size pavers and may layout was a random pattern.. just put them in where they fit... and break up the straight lines every 4 feet or so.. that is one thing you want to watch out for. lay them like bricks. you may need to make some cuts to do this. I used a diamond wheel on my compound miter saw worked great but dusty mess close the windows I forgot LOL little clean up unside good luckon installing these edgers does it matter whether you put them in before you put the pavers in or maybe cheap and install them after? or is that possible .from some of the infORMATION I READ from another source i gathered that it might be possible to cheaT A LITTLE BIT

can the edgers be attached as you go as on hometime or should they all be installed first before the sand is leveled out?

I just finished a paver patio myself. install the plastic barrier at the end. You want it snug to the end pavers-even if you measure, you're better off putting it in last. I had a problem that I think is pretty common with paver patios and I'll inform you on how i went about it: It rained hard the day after I finished (all except the polimeres sand)the job. Easily, a lot of the sand under the outside pavers washed away. Also, the outside pavers sink down when stepped on because there's sand right under them. I took out all the outside pavers and put 2 inches of 3 insh deep concrete all along the outside of the outside pavers. Now, even if rain washes some of the sand out from under them, they stay level and wont sink when stepped on. Take your time and set the pavers as perfectly as possible; going back and trying to fix imperfections is a hassle.
Good luck

I had my plastic edging mounted down to the crushed stone just for adding the sand and leveling it smooth. I didn't bother with having it in the exact location.
After leveling the sand and installing the pavers, I went around the finished edge of the pavers and used a hand trowel (gardening trowel or anything you want for scraping sand away) to scrape away any of the excess sand. The KEY part to this process is that I left about 1/4" to 3/8" of sand sticking out from the side of the pavers and I did not touch the stonedust base. At this point, I took the plastic edging and pulled it in towards the pavers and snugged it up against the side while compacting the excess 1/4" to 3/8" of sand underneath the pavers. I then nailed the plastic edging in place while it was snug up against the pavers. At this point, all that matters is that the top edge of the plastic edging is below the top surface of the patio. (on mine, the plastic edging caught about bottom 1/2" to 3/4" of the pavers)

After nailing all of the plastic edging down, I removed most of the excess sand/stonedust from around the periphery of the patio (being careful to leave the important base intact), added some strips of sod to finish off the edge ( I also added some soil to build the sod up to the height of the existing lawn) and then I added my sand to the top surface of the pavers.

This is a really good thread as I want to build a stone patio. I have a plan in mind except for the edging, which seems to be problemmatic. Do any of you recommend railroad ties for edging?

Is plastic edging strong enough to keep things from shifting or washing away?
Thanks!

<i>This is a really good thread as I want to build a stone patio. I have a plan in mind except for the edging, which seems to be problemmatic. Do any of you recommend railroad ties for edging?</i>


Personally, I wouldn't recommend railroad ties. Too easy to get splinters and the chemicals that they are treated with could give nasty infections. If you're sold on doing a wood frame for edging, perhaps the new composite wood would be a better alternative....no splinters and it's fairly inexpensive now.

<i>Is plastic edging strong enough to keep things from shifting or washing away?</i>

Sure....
I bet the 9 inch long mounting spikes down into the compacted stone dust layer probably help too :)

Plastic edging is more than suitible for patio use. I use it commercially for all installations, except on city spec'd jobs calling for other methods. A few tips:
On jobs with curved edges and a border, install the edging first.
On jobs with straight lines, you allow some room for tweaking individual stones for alignment purposes by installing it after the fact. Just be sure to remove your bedding layer to the base layer where your edging will go.

The edging holds the edges firm, but also minimizes the amount of sand that washes out in heavy rains. One thing I didn't notice above was tamping the stones once they have been layed and edged. Tamping tham seats them in the bedding layer, and interlocks them when the sand is spread on top and tamped a second time. If weather will be a problem before completion, unfinished sections can be tamped, just stay 3 feet from the unrestrained edges.

One note on base layers: The more clayey the soil, the thicker the base needed. Always use an aggregate consisting of various sized stones, from dust to 1". This type provides for better, more even compaction than does stone dust, per say. If at all possible, get your soil and base layers as close to flat (in relation to your chosen slope) as possible. Never use more than 1 1/2" of sand for you bedding layer. The combination of an uneven base and/or making up the difference with sand WILL show itself in time, especially in areas where heavy soil freeze/thaw cycles occur.