Entertainment Center: TVs, Stereos, VCRs and DVDs - surround sound equipment and speaker placement
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pcrane
05-08-04, 08:14 PM
I am having a home built. I plan to have surround sound in my family room. The room is 19 by 19 with 12 foot ceiling. Can you advise on low to mid price receiver and speakers? Also, can you help with speaker placement? Can the center speaker be placed in ceiling or is it best on top of TV or in wall above or below TV? As you can tell, I'm new to this. We don't want to spend a lot of money, but feel this is the logical time to set place the speakers. Thanks for any help.
fewalt
05-09-04, 06:06 AM
Hi Pcrane,
I'll try to help a bit on the speaker placement issue:
Center speaker - most all center speakers aren't made for in wall/ceiling placement, and they are best placed directly on top of set. The center channel is primarily Dialogue! For Dolby 5.1 surround you need at least two front speakers(l & r) and two rear speakers(l & r). The front and rears can be in-the-wall type. My fronts are in the wall on each side of my set. And probably most important of all you will want a powered sub woofer. Because subs are omni-directional they can just about be placed anywhere in the room. But because of the cabling(power and speaker connection) they're generally up front somewhere near the system.
And remember while shopping for an A/V receiver, you need one with optical digital (toslink) connections(for DVD, satellite, or possibly digital cable).
Since you are building: If you plan to possibly have a DishNet or DirecTV satellite system installed, have the electrician run direct individual RG6 lines from each room to a central access/entry point, preferably on the southwest side of house. Additionally, if you may consider HDTV (why not), have an extra RG6 run from main tv location to attic/roof area. Most areas are broadcasting digital TV and HDTV OTA (over the air). This is still difficult for most people to comprehend: "You mean I need an outside antenna".
Well, you don't need it, BUT you may want it. I watch HD on NBC and CBS via ota.
fred
I'll try to help a bit on the speaker placement issue:
Center speaker - most all center speakers aren't made for in wall/ceiling placement, and they are best placed directly on top of set. The center channel is primarily Dialogue! For Dolby 5.1 surround you need at least two front speakers(l & r) and two rear speakers(l & r). The front and rears can be in-the-wall type. My fronts are in the wall on each side of my set. And probably most important of all you will want a powered sub woofer. Because subs are omni-directional they can just about be placed anywhere in the room. But because of the cabling(power and speaker connection) they're generally up front somewhere near the system.
And remember while shopping for an A/V receiver, you need one with optical digital (toslink) connections(for DVD, satellite, or possibly digital cable).
Since you are building: If you plan to possibly have a DishNet or DirecTV satellite system installed, have the electrician run direct individual RG6 lines from each room to a central access/entry point, preferably on the southwest side of house. Additionally, if you may consider HDTV (why not), have an extra RG6 run from main tv location to attic/roof area. Most areas are broadcasting digital TV and HDTV OTA (over the air). This is still difficult for most people to comprehend: "You mean I need an outside antenna".
Well, you don't need it, BUT you may want it. I watch HD on NBC and CBS via ota.
fred
BobF
05-10-04, 10:30 AM
Stay away from home theater in a box systems. The prices are low, but you do get what you pay for.
stereoguy
05-10-04, 06:45 PM
Please give us an overall budget for speakers and a receiver.
Ideally none of your speakers are in-wall, but obviously asthetics win in some situations. Some rules for HT speakers:
1. All speakers (except the sub) should match. Ideally they are all exactly the same.
2. The center should be directly above or below the screen. In the ceiling is a bad idea - most of the movie comes from that speaker.
3. Ideally the front 3 speakers (left center and rear) should be an equal distance from the primary listening position.
4. The front 3 should also be at the same height, and at ear level when you are sitting down. This is often not possible becasue ear level would put the center of the screen. A good compromise is L and R at ear level, and the center as close as possible.
5. The rear surrond speakers should be on the side walls, several feet above the listener, and maybe a foot or two behind the main listening position. The placement of these can be fudged, and still be ok. Mine are behind me, and several feet above.
6. Buy the best sub you can afford.
Ideally none of your speakers are in-wall, but obviously asthetics win in some situations. Some rules for HT speakers:
1. All speakers (except the sub) should match. Ideally they are all exactly the same.
2. The center should be directly above or below the screen. In the ceiling is a bad idea - most of the movie comes from that speaker.
3. Ideally the front 3 speakers (left center and rear) should be an equal distance from the primary listening position.
4. The front 3 should also be at the same height, and at ear level when you are sitting down. This is often not possible becasue ear level would put the center of the screen. A good compromise is L and R at ear level, and the center as close as possible.
5. The rear surrond speakers should be on the side walls, several feet above the listener, and maybe a foot or two behind the main listening position. The placement of these can be fudged, and still be ok. Mine are behind me, and several feet above.
6. Buy the best sub you can afford.
SafeWatch
05-10-04, 07:06 PM
Please give us an overall budget for speakers and a receiver.
Absolutely - this will determine not only what brand of speakers you look for, but where you look for them and what size/power rating/etc. you get.
<p> </p>
All speakers (except the sub) should match. Ideally they are all exactly the same.
Couldn't disagree more - the Center is not going to be the same, and shouldn't be - and the Rears do not need to be as big as the Fronts (the reason is simple, they don't have as much power pushed to them; they are just for ambiance.)
<p> </p>
The center should be directly above or below the screen. In the ceiling is a bad idea - most of the movie comes from that speaker.
Absolutely - usually just above (or on top of) the TV is the best place, since the TV sits just higher than eye-level when you are sitting down. This makes the voices, effects, etc. seem to come from the TV.
Ditto on the rest, with 2 exceptions:
1) The Center channel on top of the TV (or, if you have a projector and sound passive screen - behind the screen)
2) The Rears should be no more than a foot to a foot and a half above your head - depending on the distance from your listening position
<p> </p>
Stay away from home theater in a box systems. The prices are low, but you do get what you pay for.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Absolutely - this will determine not only what brand of speakers you look for, but where you look for them and what size/power rating/etc. you get.
<p> </p>
All speakers (except the sub) should match. Ideally they are all exactly the same.
Couldn't disagree more - the Center is not going to be the same, and shouldn't be - and the Rears do not need to be as big as the Fronts (the reason is simple, they don't have as much power pushed to them; they are just for ambiance.)
<p> </p>
The center should be directly above or below the screen. In the ceiling is a bad idea - most of the movie comes from that speaker.
Absolutely - usually just above (or on top of) the TV is the best place, since the TV sits just higher than eye-level when you are sitting down. This makes the voices, effects, etc. seem to come from the TV.
Ditto on the rest, with 2 exceptions:
1) The Center channel on top of the TV (or, if you have a projector and sound passive screen - behind the screen)
2) The Rears should be no more than a foot to a foot and a half above your head - depending on the distance from your listening position
<p> </p>
Stay away from home theater in a box systems. The prices are low, but you do get what you pay for.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
stereoguy
05-10-04, 07:17 PM
Some more info -
you can run a sub with a coax cable, so have your builder run a piece of coax from a wall plate by your receiver to a wall plate near where you sub will be. There should be a power outlet nearby. You may want to run coax to a couple locations in case you want to move the sub down the road.
Pre-run speaker wire to your speaker locations. I had all mine run to blank wall plates, and then installed the wall plates later. I ran the rears right to where the speakers would hang off the wall. The fronts I ran to plates at standard outlet height, and then ran speaker wire from there to the speakers, which sit a couple feet away from the wall.
I would pre wire fro 7.1 sound. That means 2 fronts, 2 rears to either side of the listener, and 2 rears behind the listener. Ideally all the rears are equidistant from the main listening position, and are at the same height. If you aren't going to buy 7 speakers right away, you can have the wiring guy attach the unused wire to the stud at the height you want to mount the speaker, and then just sheetrock over it. Then all you have to do to upgrade to 7.1 is buy two speakers and punch a couple holes in the wall to get to the wires. Take good pics so you know exactly where those wires are hidden.
you can run a sub with a coax cable, so have your builder run a piece of coax from a wall plate by your receiver to a wall plate near where you sub will be. There should be a power outlet nearby. You may want to run coax to a couple locations in case you want to move the sub down the road.
Pre-run speaker wire to your speaker locations. I had all mine run to blank wall plates, and then installed the wall plates later. I ran the rears right to where the speakers would hang off the wall. The fronts I ran to plates at standard outlet height, and then ran speaker wire from there to the speakers, which sit a couple feet away from the wall.
I would pre wire fro 7.1 sound. That means 2 fronts, 2 rears to either side of the listener, and 2 rears behind the listener. Ideally all the rears are equidistant from the main listening position, and are at the same height. If you aren't going to buy 7 speakers right away, you can have the wiring guy attach the unused wire to the stud at the height you want to mount the speaker, and then just sheetrock over it. Then all you have to do to upgrade to 7.1 is buy two speakers and punch a couple holes in the wall to get to the wires. Take good pics so you know exactly where those wires are hidden.
stereoguy
05-10-04, 07:22 PM
Couldn't disagree more - the Center is not going to be the same, and shouldn't be - and the Rears do not need to be as big as the Fronts (the reason is simple, they don't have as much power pushed to them; they are just for ambiance.)
If you're talking about pro-logic I'd agree with you. Current technology - Dolby Digital/DTS - send a full range signal to the rear. Any receiver over $200 will pump the same power to the rear channels as to the fronts. Sound panning across the soundstage will sound best if all the speakers are _exactly_ the same. Even the center. The ideal center speaker is exactly the same as the Left/Rights. Centers are normally built differntly as a compromise of convenience, not because they sound better that way.
If you're talking about pro-logic I'd agree with you. Current technology - Dolby Digital/DTS - send a full range signal to the rear. Any receiver over $200 will pump the same power to the rear channels as to the fronts. Sound panning across the soundstage will sound best if all the speakers are _exactly_ the same. Even the center. The ideal center speaker is exactly the same as the Left/Rights. Centers are normally built differntly as a compromise of convenience, not because they sound better that way.