Flooring Tile - Found some tile & want to use... Know nothing!

Hello one & all,

Ok, here's the deal. I just bought my first house (applause). Anyway, I am ripping apart one of the bathrooms and completely rebuilding it from the ground up. Tearing apart is easy. :D

In the basement, I found some ceramic tile. It's old, but nice looking once cleaned. I have decided that I want to use this tile in my new bathroom. The ONLY thng it says on this tile is (on the bottom): "Ceramico Faro" & "Made in Italy". It is six sided and basically looks like, well, a six-sided thing... ;) It measure 7 3/4" x 6 3/4" for the most part.

Later tonight, when I get home, I will take a picture of it and post it on my website for you to see. Anyway, could you guys inform me exactly as to how to install these things? I am a computer guy, and am capable of learning just about anything, but I know NOTHING about instaling ceramic tile. I've watched the Lowe's How-to video from this site, and that has helped, but I think I need a little more help.

Can you guys bear with me over the coming week or so it will take me to do all this? I'd appreciate it, thank you!

Chris

First do a dry layout to make sure there's plenty tile. Then move all the tile out of the way and use a roll on suppression membrane. After that dries use thinset that comes dry in a bag, no premix, no mastic. For a tile that size you can use a 1/4x1/4x3/8 trowel for the thinset.

If you have any questions post them here.

Hello again!

Sorry it took me so long for pictures. Ok, here is the url to the area of my website I set up. It has two images: one of the tile to be used, and another one is a drawing I made of the bathroom layout.

The page is HERE (http://www.bartlett-family.net/bathroom.html).

First of all, what do you guys think about that tile for a bathroom floor? Actually, it's only a powder room, but whatever... Not bad for free, eh? There IS enough to cover the whole floor.

Ok, so let's look at my drawing (keeping the laughter to a minimum ;)). I'm no artist... The outer thick black is, of course the walls of the bathroom. The red lines will be walls inside the room which will be put up later. It should be pretty easy to read.

Seeing as how the tile is not square, how do you suggest I lay it out? Where should I start from, the upper left hand corner? Please note that, although this bathroom is actually broken up into closet spaces too, the entire thing will have this flooring. I plan to attach this ceramic tile to the plywood floor that is laid down now. It's flat and ready to go. So, what do I do? Here's what I think!

1. Spread adhesive.
2. Place tiles down.
3. Grout.
4. Done.

Yes? No?

Now, here's another thing. The toilet and sink are NOT in the room right now. I took 'em out. Do I lay down all tile then cut holes through the tile for device drainage and other pipes? Or, do I mark the hole areas before I tile, and cut tile to go around those holes? BTW, what do I use to cut a ceramic tile?

Please don't be afraind to explain this to me as if I were 5. Seeing as how I've never done this before, I know this must seem silly, but I seriously have no idea what I'm doing. I'd appreciate it if someone could walk me through this step by step over the next week or two (seeing as how I can only work on it sporadically... I'll continually update pictures of my work as we go along so you can see if I screw anything up. Thanks in advance!

Chris

I am interested in taking peek at that Lowe's video you talked about on this site. How can I get there?
Thanks in advance.:)

Originally posted by hoopers
I am interested in taking peek at that Lowe's video you talked about on this site. How can I get there?
Thanks in advance.:) To get to that interactive tutorial, go to http://doityourself.com/ceramic/index.shtml and then click "Installing Ceramic Tile Floor - Interactive Tutorial".

Chris

Originally posted by WorldBuilder
I plan to attach this ceramic tile to the plywood floor that is laid down now. I have a question regarding this. As I said, there is plywood laid down right now. I've read that's it's NOT a good idea to attache ceramic tile floor to "luan" plywood. What is luan plywood, and what is the difference between it and regular old plywood?

Chris

First, you will want to use a cement backer board for the base of your floor this goes over the wood floor you have now. You must secure this backer board with screws and coat seams and screws with thinnest. You are then ready to lay your tile.

Some start from the center of the room with their layout so that all areas where the tile meets the walls remain even. If you choose to start from a wall however it is essential you make sure it is square with he rest of the walls. This is important because if it is not you may have a situation when you get across the room tile on one end might be full but as you proceed down the wall the peaces need to be cut more and more. I hope you understand what I am trying say. If you do choose to start from the wall let us know and we will describe the layout.

Then you will need to cut around obstacles as you lay so you are sure you are cutting correctly. As you have octagon tile there will be a considerable amount of cutting around the walls for this you will surely want to use a wet saw. You can get a small portable one from Lowe’s for around $60.00 I think. You can rent them of course but I think this will take you some time so you might come off cheaper with the purchase, anyway a man can never have to many tools.

Now as I mentioned with these octagon tiles there will be a lot of cuts, so before you run out and buy all your required materials you need to be sure you have enough tiles for the cuts. The general rule is 10% more tiles than what the floor calls for, for waste & cuts. As you are a novice and the cutting might not go well at the start & the style of tile I would increase that to 20%.;). So with your dry layout did you that much left over?

I am not exactly sure bit it seams your tile needs about 4 tile per sq. ft. (someone check my math:D) You have about 72 sq. ft. of floor space this would mean you need about 288 tiles plus 57 or so for cuts and waste. So about 345 tiles. If you got this covered we will go from there. Good Luck.

Ok, thanks for the info. Let me check on my tile count and make sure I have enough. I haven't counted yet since these are just tiles I found in the basement after I moved in.

I'll be back. ;)

Chris

Should I lay down the cement backer board on TOP of the luan plywood (which is 1/4" thick) or should I just remove the plywood and only use the cement backer board? I bought all the necessary supplies today and am going to start the project tomorrow, hopefully finishing in about 2 weeks (since I can only work on it sporadically).

Chris

Also, let me ask this:

Once the cement backer board is down, and I'm ready to lay tile, should I lay the tile and put the toilet on TOP of the tile, or should I install the toilet, then tile around it?

I am thinking that tiling and placing the toilet on top of that would be better...

Chris

Nowhere even near a close call. Put the toilet on top of the tile.

Originally posted by John Nelson
Nowhere even near a close call. Put the toilet on top of the tile. Great, thanks! What about the cement backer board in my other question, please?

Should I lay down the cement backer board on TOP of the luan plywood (which is 1/4" thick) or should I just remove the plywood and only use the cement backer board?

Chris

Remove that layer as well,that way you can get a look and see what kind of condition the subfloor is in before tiling:cool:

Well, right now, the subfloor can be seen because only 3/4 of the floor is actually covered in the luan plywood. My question is: Should I finish off the floor with more plywood THEN place the cement backerboard or remove the plywood that is covering the 3/4 and ONLY use the cement backerboard?

Thanks!

Chris

Finish pulling that up and use only the backer board:cool:

Very cool. Starting tomorrow. Will keep ya'll up to date!

Chris

Ok, I've pulled up all the plywood (which was 1/2", BTW). I have not yet started on the backerboard and tile because the floor is sloped. I was hoping I could get around it, but I can't. I have to level the floor.

Basically, one end of the floor is about 1/2" higher than the other end with a gradual slope. What do you guys think is the best way for me to even this floor our? I am thinking of laying down very thin wood strips (that will obviously get thinner and thinner as I approach the high end) strategically and then laying the backerboard on top of that. It'll be painstaking and slow, but it'll work. Anyone have any better ideas? I'm open-minded!

Chris

The backer board is designed to be applied to a flat level solid surface. The Idea with the strips will leave weak points between the strips where the backer board is likely to crack. Ideally, in the tile section @ Lowe’s or Home depot you can find a floor leveling material. It comes in a bag that resembles thin set. It mixes thin and will be easy to float the floor level. This material is put in place then the backer board is applied over it after it dries. I would question the reason for this pitch first though. Is it sagging joist ECT? Where does the floor angle too?

Homer,

This is good info...

The backer board is designed to be applied to a flat level solid surface. This is what I wanted to know.

Ideally, in the tile section @ Lowe’s or Home depot you can find a floor leveling material. It comes in a bag that resembles thin set. It mixes thin and will be easy to float the floor level. Ok, I will look and see what they have. I was wondering if something like this existed, and I guess it does! I will look.

Is it sagging joist ECT? Where does the floor angle too? I don't know what ECT means. Ok, here's the deal. This bathroom is on the first floor. The right side of the bathroom is basically the right side of the house. The bathroom is about 5 feet wide, meaning it comes into the house 5 feet. From the outside wall to the 5 feet in, there is a total sag of 1/2". I have put floor jacks in place in the basement and supported all floor joists underneath. I even tried to see if the floor jacks would give me the ability to raise the sagging floor a little, but no luck there. It's structurally sound, just sagging a bit because it's a 100 year old house.

I'll look into the floor leveling material. Is it basically like cement? What I mean is, you mix it up then just pour it over the uneven floor, leveling it out as you pour? Since this would be poured over woob, what about the slight spaces in between the wood floor? Wouldn't this stuff seep through the floor into the basement? Should I COMPLETELY cover the floor, and then drill my toilet holes and sink pipe holes after it has hardened? Or should I drill holes, then put this stuff down around the holes?

I'll also ask the HD or Lowe's floor guys this, but I'd appreciate opinions here, too. Thanks a million guys. It's people like you that make it possible for people like me to do work like this in the first place. :)

You ever need computer help, just stop over to the computer forum, and I'll repay you in a heartbeat!

Chris

I would drill all holes and stub in all necessary plumbing first. Poor and cut backer board around it. This product is good for the application you have. As for the gaps in the floorboards I would first lay some 15 lb felt paper down before you poor. As for my previous post, Ect. (Etc, oops ) :p I meant to stand for etcetera. Anyway good luck and post back with anymore questions I hope this helps. :D

Product Description:
DAP® Concrete Floor Leveler is designed for use with DAPÒ Concrete Bonding Liquid and Floor Leveler
Additive to provide an underlayment system that levels interior or exterior concrete, masonry and wood
Suggested Uses:
For leveling concrete, masonry, and wood subfloors.
Surface Preparation & Application
· Surface must be structurally sound, clean, and free of dust, dirt, paint, soap film, oil, adhesive, grease, chemical concrete curing compounds, and other foreign material.
· Damp mop dry surfaces with water and nail any loose wood flooring prior to application.
· In a clean container add DAPÒ Concrete Floor Leveler to DAPÒ Concrete Floor Leveler Additive. Do not mix more material than can be used in 45 minutes.
· Do not use mixture after it has begun to set.
· With a skim coat of DAPÒ Concrete Floor Leveler and DAPÒ Concrete Floor Leveler Additive mixture,
fill all broken areas, depressions, and cracks in surface of substrate, level and smooth to a feather edge with a gauged spreader or trowel.
· For repairs greater than 1/2 inch in thickness, not to exceed 1 inch, apply two coats, allowing the first coat to dry before applying the second. Do not over trowel.

Everything you said above was also mentioned to me at Home Depot. Great! I know what I must do.

Homer, you rock.

I'll post back, I'm sure.

Chris

Hello again gentlemen!

I'm back, and I have a floor (sorta)!!!

I have posted everything I've done so far to a page on my website (forgive it, it was a quick throw-together). That page is at:

http://www.bartlett-family.net/73crosby/bathroom1.html

Basically, I have the level-quick in there, it's now dried, and I'm ready for backerboard. Should I definitely screw the backerboard down or just snugly fit it against the walls? Oh, and another thing. Is there a special tool I should use to CUT the backerboard, or will a regular hand saw do?

You guys have been awesome!

Chris

Ok, nevermind. The backerboard is installed! I simply cut it either by scoring it and breaking, or simply using a keyhole saw. Worked fine. Also, the board is not screwed down. I don't plan on screwing it in place unless someone can give me a good reason to. The stuff isn't moving at all, solid as a rock.

I've added the cement backerboard pictures to the URL above. The page may take a minute to load if you have a slow connection. There are a fair amount of images. ;)

You guys have been great. I'll post back if I have any other questions, but I think I'm good. Regardless, I'll let ya'll know when it's done and provide pictures to that.

Thank you all very much,

Chris

WorldBuilder Stop wait!!! :eek: It is essential you properly screw down the floor. Any movement or bounce you may not be feeling can cause cracks in the grout lines or the tile. The floor leveling you used is not indestructible and if the backer board is allowed to move it will ultimately cause crumbling and you will have a mess on your hands. :( Screwing the board is easy enough and shouldn’t be overlooked. You are doing a great job keep it up. :D

Ok, so before I tile, you're saying that on a scale between "Not necessary" and "CRITICAL" that screwing down the backerboard is critical?

Ok, I'll screw it down. How far apart should I place the screws? Is there any specific pattern that should be observed or will just random screws do?

Chris

I usually go with 3 to 4 inches on the seams and 8 to 10 inches in the field. Field is the center. ;)

And this MUST be done?

Oh, and call me Chris. :)

Ok Chris :) I would say it’s advisable ;) the biggest enemy of a tile floor is movement. Securing the backer board to the wood under lament helps reinforce the floor as a whole. As you walk on the floor you may not notice but if the backer board is depressing at all you will be sure to find cracks in your grout lines or tile. So I will commit to saying it’s probably in your best interest. Keep up the good work looks like you have been doing it for years. I liked the use of the counter top :rolleyes:

Hey! Leave my countertop alone! ;)

Yeah, I already noticed that when first walking on the backerboard there were a lot of creaks and snap, crackle, pops, as it settled down. I think I will shoot some screws into it...

I'm only hesitant because the directions on the backerboard said to "glue" it down. It mentioned nothing about screws. I just don't want the screws to damage the board, as this stuff seems pretty frail. Am I crazy?

Chris

PS. You a Bengals or Browns fan (if either)?

Nowhere even near a close call. Put the toilet on top of the tile.
Same goes for the pedestal sink, I would assume?

Chris

PS. Oh, and do you think the screws will, in fact damage the backerboard? I'm laying down tile today, and I really need to know, if possible. If not, I can test some screws in an area that isn't as important (in case something goes wrong).

Hopefully the selfleveler will hold up under all the screws going through it,should have been done last before the tile.Specs call for the rock to be screwed every 2inches on the seams and every 4 to 6 in the field.If srewing the floor the thinset under the c.b.u. is not needed as the screws pull the floor and c.b.u. together eliminating the voids under the c.b.u. that the thinset is used to fill.

All this may seem like overkill but the specs call for 1 1/4 " of subfloor some say 1 1/8",i use the 1 /1/4"

Now listen,if you screw this floor down and still cracks and pops then the selfleveler has failed from all the screws in it and needs to come out before the tile goes in or you will be tearing it all back out when the tile starts to crack and pop.I know you don't want to hear this but you may want to consider tearing this out and starting over before you tile.Get back to us :cool:

Hopefully the selfleveler will hold up under all the screws going through it,should have been done last before the tile.
Wait a minute... You're saying that the leveler should have gone in AFTER the backerboard? I'll read through the thread, but isn't that the exact opposite of everything I've been told?
Now listen,if you screw this floor down and still cracks and pops then the selfleveler has failed from all the screws in it and needs to come out before the tile goes in or you will be tearing it all back out when the tile starts to crack and pop.I know you don't want to hear this but you may want to consider tearing this out and starting over before you tile.Get back to us :cool:
I've followed instructions here to the letter, and I'm seriously worried now that this is all bass-ackwards. Is it? I am in NO mood to rip out the floor again, especially with the self leveler that's basically concrete... That would really ruin my day.

If there's a possibility that the backerboard screws would damage the self leveler, then can I pull up the backerboard and use GLUE of some kind instead of screws? Glue should accomplicsh the same goals of just securing the backerboard, right?

Concerned,

Chris

Nevermind, fellas. No worries. Floor is very close to being done. Pictures coming soon!

Looks great, and I truly thank you all for your help and expert advice.

Chris

Yea ,thats what i'm saying.If you have followed all the directions on the bag of selfleveler and primed the floor and did everything they said to do then maybe you dodged a bullet ,but in the future the selfleveler goes on top of the durock and does not get nailed or screwed through :cool:

Pictures still coming...

Ok, the tile is down and the grout is in! Floor looks outstanding if I do say so myself. :cool:

Next question... I understand that I now have to wet mop the floor every day for the next 3 days?

And I'm also told that in a week, I shuold put a silicon sealer along the grout lines. All this correct? Is there ANYTHING else I must do?

Thanks!

Chris