Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - Vapor Barrier on Concrete Slab

I'm buying a condo in about a week. It has an ongrade concrete slab. I want to glue down wood floors. I'm going for either a 3/8" Bruce maple or a Mannington 3/8" oak. Both are engineered hardwoods.

I know I need a vapor barrier. The ppl who sell Mannington recommended me to get buy a concrete sealer from them. I actually had 2 ppl seperate recommend this. I diddn't get the name or brand. I looked for a concrete sealer at Home Crapot and didn't see any that would block moisture from below.

Reading the Bruce isntall instructions,

http://www.armstrong.com/resbrucewoodna/article4975.asp


Moisture Barrier System: If moisture is present, inexpensive sheet vinyl or “slip-sheet”(PVC) may be installed. Use a premium grade, alkaline resistant adhesive and a full spread application system to properly bond the vinyl to the subfloor. Follow the sheet vinyl manufacturer instructions for installation procedures. A patch test may be required as an adhesion test. Install several small areas (3’x 3’) and allow the vinyl to set for 72 hours. Remove the vinyl; if the backing remains attached to the concrete, the subfloor should be acceptable for sheet vinyl installation.


What I think it means is specifically not to glue onto concrete with an applied sealer. It says to glue the hardwood either (a) onto vinyl sheet or (b) onto a 6 mil vinyl pvc slip sheet.

As long as I can glue a 6 mil pvc sheet to the floor, or buy a 6 mil pvc that is self sticking, I can glue my wood directly onto the pvc? Sounds really odd.

and in (a) they are saying, "go laydown a nice new vinly floor and then glue your planks over your nice new floor".

thanks in advance.

As I read the original on their website, those instructions are written for multiple products.
1. I would call them and tell them about YOUR product interest and
2 How stupid and confusing their instructions are.

One interpretation is that paragraph they quoted is written as a test for vinyl.
The pros here know better than I.
In any event, I think their instructions stink.
I have no love for them and think they have their heads up their ***.
But if you want that product, ABSOLUTELY get a clarification from them and take their word ONLY since you have to do what they say for any warrantee to be honored.

grrr... I called my hardwood dealer and they said they sell a product called, DecoMass.. it's a 2 part epoxy.

I then called Bruce and they said told me not to glue to the epoxy. They would rather you

1) glue directly to the concrete slab if it's dry enough

2) lay down vinyl and then glue to the vinyl.


anybody think I should just glue to the epoxy? Two dealers recommened I just glue to the epoxy.

Secondly, do I have to roll the wood after I glue it down? I was gonna buy the Connection PR+ glue they sell at Lowes... Bruce (armstrong) makes the glue, I believe.

The only way to be certain that you need a vapor barrier is to do a moisture test.

Sheet vinyl flooring can be used as a moisture barrier.

I do not know of a concrete sealer that will block moisture.

I can't answer your question about the epoxy.

The insructions on the glue will tell you if you need to roll the floor.

Edwin

I can only tell you this:
Our crews will NOT warranty an installation of Bruce engineered wood flooring over sheet vinyl, especially using the PR adhesive. This glue is a consumer friendly latex adhesive and does not seem to have the holding power as some of the solvent based wood adhesives. It IS labeled for installation over sheet vinyl but, as I said, we have had problems and will not warranty that work. Check into Roberts adhesives and some of the other mfgs. for a solvent based glue.

"This glue is a consumer friendly latex adhesive and does not seem to have the holding power as some of the solvent based wood adhesives" RIGHT ON! I've seen these kind of failures too and they aren't pretty. Also in my experience concrete sealers are a big no-no.

Go with Bostiks if you're determined to glue this floor. As a side note I'm in Florida where close to 75%(guesstimate) of all installations are glue down type. In twelve years I've come across only three jobs/slabs that were unacceptable for glueing direct. Vinyl moisture barrier was used.

do this first before anything else,take the six mil plastic,cut them into foot by foot squares{5} of them take some duct tape and find 5 areas at different sections of the area to be covered with wood and tape them to the floor,if a small area then use only{3} wait for 24 hours and see if there is condensation under the plastic,make sure the tape covers the plastic edges to provide and airtight seal,then geta calcium chloride test at a flooring supply and see how much moisture is in the slab.If there is no moisture under the plastic the proceed with what you have been told,but you MUST first determine if and how moisture is present then you will know what direction to go in anything else is just guessing:cool:

Thank you for the advice everybody. I will definitely not buy the Connection PR adhesive. I'm pretty certain that I need to provide some type of vapor barrier even if the concrete if found dry. I'm in southern california and it has not rained in 5 months and will probably not rain for at least another month or two. So who is to know if the concrete will become moist.

So I' thinking, I will pick up a 2 part epoxy sealer from my local hardware store, some Roberts flooring adhesive as suggested, and just glue the wood to the floor.

I still don't have possession of the property yet, but I need to start ordering materials so I will have the wood when I move in.

I've also been contemplating floating laminate floors as an alternative since the installation would be so much simpler.... and a 2in1 foal underlayment will do the job without need for a sealer, but I'm still weary of the floor lifting and buckling.

I just have this weird feeling, you are going to have a lot of hollow spots in that floor.

The Taylor 2071 Adhesive with Meta-tec technology is hard to beat! It drys to a waterproof barrier.

The info on this forum has been very helpfull, but I still have some questions regarding the concrete sealer.

I will start to finish my 900 sq. ft. basement in a few months, but before I begin the drywall and bathroom piping, I would like to seal the concrete. The slab and walls were poured about 5 months ago and I live in Atlanta, GA.

I will probably install a glue down engineered wood floor directly on the concrete slab, but which sealer should I use as a vapor barrier?

You mentioned a 2 part epoxy sealant, but would that be enough vapor barrier to simply glue down the wood floor later? Any brands you recommend?

I was considering a product called RadonSeal Standard http://www.radonseal.com/concrete-sealers.htm
Penetrate deep (up to 4" in concrete) and react with lime and alkalis. Bond and strengthen, reduce cracking. Harden the surface and reduce dusting. Seal against water seepage, water vapor and radon gas. Withstand high water pressure. Reduce indoor humidity, condensation, fungi, molds and mildew.
Stop efflorescence. Protect against deterioration, spalling, road salts, freeze-thaw damage, most chemicals, carbonization. Permanent (no re-application needed).

Thanks,

Mario

Originally posted by marito17
The info on this forum has been very helpfull, but I still have some questions regarding the concrete sealer...



Protect against deterioration, spalling, road salts, freeze-thaw damage, most chemicals, carbonization. Permanent (no re-application needed). [/I]

Thanks,

Mario



The adhesive you will be using is considered a chemical.

Your going to have bonding issues!

The basement adds to the fine line for the installation. I would suggest a floating floor, with a felt and plastic moisture barrier under it.

The Mannington is a better milled board then the Bruce, that is a fight to get it to fit tight.