Doors and Windows - replacement windows

I live in northeast- House built in mid 70's with original wood windows. They need replacing. I am somewhat confused- I think I want to install repalcement windows since it seems relatively easy. I've read alot about them- Here is my question- I am going to try and remove one of them this weekend. It seems fairly simple to remove an old one- Do I remove the WHOLE window, or just the sashes? I am guessing I need to remove the rails on the side since I will be replacing them- Can I do the whole job form the inside of the house without disturbing the trim?? ALso- If anyone has any good links about this- please share- THanks

Well, before you go taking one out ( which is real easy ), you better have one to go back in :).......at least if you're married to one like my wife......ahahahahaha


read this first:




How To Measure for Replacement Windows
Wood Double Hung Version


Wood double hung windows are what vinyl replacement windows were “really” designed to replace, though they definitely can and are used in other situations.
The thickness of a replacement window frame is 3 ¼”, which is the combined thickness of 2 standard wood sashes. The replacement window goes in the space where the old wood sashes slide up and down.

In windows that date from the late 50’s forward, wood window makers used fairly standard sizes and construction methods. Standard sizes start around 18”, then go to 20”, then 24”, 28”, 32”,36”, 40” and occasionally you see a 44 or 48” on WIDTHS.
The sashes will generally slide up and down in an aluminum or plastic track.

Heights usually run 38”, 54”, 62”, 72”.

For example: a wood window called a 2/0 x 3/2 is a 24” wide by 38” tall window.
IMPORTANT: Window sizes are always given width first, height second. Don’t get that mixed up !

When you measure the width, you would get REAL close to 24” when you measure inside the area where the sash slides up and down. The height will measure about 37 ¾”or so, measured from the top of inside sash track to the TOP of the sloped part of the sill where the sash makes contact when it is lowered.

So for that window, I would order a replacement 23 ¾” wide and 37 ½” tall.
I order my windows “EXACT SIZE”…..if you don’t tell them that, they will automatically cut your measurements ¾” or more……..on the assumption it’s easier to fill in than tear out, I guess…..If you do what I tell you, there is just enough gap to slide the unit in and leave a caulk joint…..otherwise, you have some serious insulation stuffing to do, plus more trim problems later. GET EXACT SIZE.

On older double hungs, like the type that have rope pulleys and sash weights back in the wall, you measure the same way, but the sizes will vary quite a bit more…..there were far less standard……they sometimes vary ½” or more even between window to window that appear the same size.

Now, here's the "how to"

If you have more questions after this, post back....


How to install replacement vinyl windows
If you have standard double hung wood windows



First, I’m assuming you have read my “how to measure “ and have your windows ready to go in.

1. Remove the storm windows. The wood strip or ledge they were screwed to is the “storm stop”. Usually a strip of wood about ½ x ½” that extends back under the exterior moulding. In addition to giving a place to mount a storm window, it also serves as the stop for the outer most sash, the upper one.

2. You can either remove the storm stop with a wood chisel and take the sashes out to the outside…..which I do IF the inside is painted up and I don’t want to disturb it…..or you can remove the inside stop ( the one that holds the lower sash in place as it slides up and down). Don’t take off the top outside stop. Not necessary. If the inside stop is stained and will come off easy, go that route. Do take off the top inside stop…..necessary…but save them for reinstall.

3. If you have fairly “modern” windows with the aluminum tracks, just raise both sashes to the top, slip a bar or hammer claw in behind the track and fold it inward…..usually couple staples holding it, then grab both sashes together and jerk in the direction you took the stop out. The whole mess will come right out in your hands, be ready. People put deadbolts on their doors and 4 little staples hold the windows in…..ahahahahahahahaha

4. If you have the older rope and pulley type window, after taking one of the stops out, cut the sash cords on the first sash( boom/boom…those were the counterweights falling back in their cavity) and take out the sash. Then take out “parting stop”…..a 3/4x1/2” strip set in a dado ( groove) in the side jamb. Probably painted all to whizzz, but pry with a small chisel or screwdriver and it will pop out. Then you can cut the cords to the other sash and take it out.

5. On both, there is a parting stop at the top of the window…remove it too or the new window won’t go in place.

6. There is a type of wood double hung I call “pop and go” windows. They used a spring loaded aluminum strip on one side to put pressure against the sash as the method to hold it in place. All you do to get those out is grab the sash, jerk toward the spring loaded side ( usually the left side from inside looking out) and the sashes will come right out. Then take the aluminum tracks out ( screws set in pockets). The pocket on the spring side is deep…..you need to measure this type window slightly more in width. Usually a 28” wide window I make 28 ¼” so it will set in that pocket a little better….and you still have to stuff some insulation there.

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7. Now set your new window in the frame. Put it tight against either the inside or outside stop, whichever you didn’t take off. Level, make sure the new window is square, then use the four screws that came with it to install. If your windows are tall, I run another screw in the side jamb ABOVE the travel point of the sash shoe on the inside track to hold the jamb securely where you want it. Don’t bother using the jamb adjusters that come with them, most are junk.

8. Run bead around the outside on sides and top. Stuff some fiberglass insulation under the bottom where the new window is flat and the wood sill slopes away. Then you can slip the sill extension piece ( that flat pc with a little lip that came with the window) onto the bottom of the window to fill that gap, and install a couple of wood strips to replace the stop you cut off. Caulk and paint as needed….OR

9. I make aluminum trim to cover all the outside wood. If you can rent a sheet metal brake, buy some aluminum trim coil and do the same. This is a deal where pictures would be worth a zillion words…..maybe I’ll set up a website one day to show you how. This finish work is what separates the amateur work from the pro work.

Thanks Andy - I think I got it except for one small stupid question.
Do the replacement windows mount on the "old" rails? Seems like that would be rather difficult- Maybe I missed something.

Do you mean the aluminum tracks on the side of the sashes ? Is that what you're calling the "rails" ?

If so, re-read my instructions......once you have either the inside or the outside stop removed, you fold the track inward and pull it along with the sashes at the same time. It's gone....

If you mean something else by "rails", please define for me so we can get on the same page as to terms....

andy

THanks Andy- yeah sorry- I meant the tracks on the side.
I wasn't clear on that- I guess my concern would be the new replacement windows fitting where the old one came out.

Jetsfan68,

You order the windows to be the size you need, and once you have the new window in hand, start taking out the old one.

Replacing a single or double hung wood window is about the simplest one there is. Realizing that you will be removing the sashes and leaving the rest of the frame in place, measure what that opening will be, deduct 1/2" from the width, and 1/4" from the height. THAT is the size of retrofit window you need. Order it. MAKE SURE you tell your window supplier that you have made those deductions -- otherwise, they will automatically make them, and the window you receiver will be too small!

I would order the windows with the exterior trim attached (z-bar). That trim will be about 2" wider that the window frame. Not a problem. If you need to make it narrower, simply use a SkilSaw with a plywood blade in it BACKWARDS and you can cut it down.

The window will fit if you measure as I told you.....I don't take as much off the sides as Lefty....I only cut them a 1/4" on the sides.

70's windows will be REAL standard sizes like I have in my article on "how to measure".

I also never have a "Z" pc put on mine....don't even know if I can get the windows I buy with that.......difference in here and Kalifornia I guess....

OK- One more question- Can I do the entire job from the INSIDE??

no...at a minimum, you'll have to caulk the new window to the old frame, and install the sill angle that comes with the window if you don't wrap the outsides with trim coil as the pros do....

You existing wood sill slopes at about a 15 degree angle....the new window has a "flat" bottom to the frame, so it will sit on the upper part of your existing sill, leaving a 3/4 to 1" gap on the outboard side....I stuff fiberglass insulation under this space, then you can install the sill angle or wrap with aluminum as I do.

Remember you have to remove EITHER the inside stops or the outside storm stop to get the old sashes out and the new window in.......often, depending on HOW they installed the inside casing ( like they lapped it OVER the stop) it's easier to chisel off the outside stop once you remove the storm window, if there,.....off course IF you aren't wrapping the outside with trim coil, you'll have to replace the wood you removed with some other wood and repaint, so it MIGHT be easier to go ahead and remove the inside casing if they lapped it over and work mostly ( but not entirely ) from the inside......

I have even seen cases where there was NO inside stop......the original carpenters just never installed it....you're looking right at the edge of the aluminum track on the inside.....Best of all worlds !......Raise both sashes all the way up, grap the bottom of the tracks and fold inward, jerk the tracks and sashes out as a bundle....install new window right back in......and ANOTHER reason you want the new window measured within a 1/4" so you only have a 1/8" gap to caulk on each side when you're done.

Thanks Andy- I purchased the windows yesterday- American Craftsman in the exact size I need- I am able to follow along with your instructions pretty well and I also downloaded the instructions from the manufacturer- THey ship with the windows a piece they call The "starter strip" that you place in the grovve on the bottom exterior of windows. I'm guessing that goes in that open area as well where the room from the sill angle is?

Yeah, just a difference in terms...they call it "starter strip" , we call it "sill angle".....partly because a lot of companies actually use an angle pc and use a couple stainless screws to hold it on.....I never use 'em in any case, but if you don't wrap with trim coil, you need to use it.

Good luck on your project.....let us know how it goes.

Andy, your instructions are excellent. I removed a window today and it was much easier after reading your "how-to". One thing you might want to add. The window I removed was installed in 1952 and the frame was in very poor shape. When I pulled on both the windows, after removing the lower and middle staples, the frame twisted and the glass shattered. There were two staples at the top that I could not get at. I should have taped up the window. There was also a small metal strips with two nails at the mid point that seemed to hold the top window in place. I think if I had used a reciprocating saw to cut all the staples and nails the windows would have come out easier.

Ed,

I've pulled thousands and thousands of wood sashes and never had one shatter. I HAVE gotten several multiple stitch cuts from storm windows, though....the frames on them do twist easily and I think they must use a special thin, cheap glass for storm windows, because it doesn't take much to make 'em "pop".

Your windows sound a bit odd, too.....I'd sure like to see some pictures if you have the ability to email digital pics....

andyd@planetc.com if you can....

Thanks.....and good luck with you windows.

EdM,

I too have changed out thousands of windows and have never had one shatter. I've had some break -- in fact, just today, ....

And I have run into panes of 1/4" glass that were dual pane picture windows and either pane of glass outweighed me (They broke too!!)

But "shattered" -- NO.

Well, except for tempered -- now that's a whole 'nother ball game! Tempered should be renamed. Let's call it "TEMPERMENTAL"!! That stuff is super strong, but sometimes, you touch it just wrong, and POW!!!