Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - can diyer use water-based finish
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jeffandann
07-18-03, 08:03 AM
I read another site's forum and a pro said to leave the water-based polys to the pros, that they are hard to apply well. I really wanted to avoid oil since I have two small kids and time and smell are a big issue. He also said to avoid the finishes sold at the major homecenters. Any advice?
Evan M.
07-18-03, 11:30 AM
Applying water based poly for a diy'er is certainly within the realm of possibilitly. You really should have no problem doing it if you have someone around to help with the edges and small detail work, ie. around small nook, around and under baseboard etc... When we refinish floors we often use water based poly and find it to be a great product. It is sometimes a debated topic here but waterbased has come a LONG way in recent years. What essentialy happens with a water based poly is you apply it, the water evaporates and a hard resin is left behinf. Very similar to an oil based product.
A few thing to be aware of with a water based is to work relatively quickly. I dont mean rush through it but don't dilly dally. A long applicator with a lambswool and a cheep edger tool (mostly used in painting) is all you need. I get the cheepo styrofoam edge tools with a felt/foam pad. Do not shake a water based poly. Instead gently turn the container upside down and gently upright. Repeat this few times. This is to avoid bubble. Many people complain with bubbles in a water based but the main reason is they shake the hell out of it in the beginning. Always work with the grain of the wood or follow the direction of the boards. Gently poor some poly out the length of the area. I will make a small puddle on one side with a long streak of poly down to the other side where I make another puddle. Have someone do the edges while you dip the main applicator in the poly and pull it up to the other side. It is almost like mopping a floor except alway working with the grain and doing long strokes to the opposite end of the floor. Work on the inside wall with the puddle of poly close to you. This is so you are really just pushing and spreading the puddles around. Slowly work your way back.
When you see an area where the poly puddling after you already applied there gently feather it out. Make sure the person doing the edges feather the edges as well to prevent excess build up. Also feather away any drips that may occur to parts of the floor you havent got to yet.
The key is to work carefully yet brisk enough, and treat the poly gently to avoid bubbles. When you poor the poly out do it gently and close to the floor.
I would recommend at least three coats. The first coat is the more difficult coat because it absorbes into the wood quicky and dries quicker. It is nice though because you can see the first coat go on much easier. After about an hour or so check the dryness by gently wipeing your hands around the floor at the part you finished last. If it dry to the touch and not tacky proceed with the next coat. The second coat will take a bit longer to dry. Be sure this coat is very dry before you proceed. When the Second coat is bone dry take a buffer and screen the floor keeping the buffer going side to side following the floor boards. Go pretty briskly. If you notice that small balls are collecting instead of dust stop immediately and let the floor dry some more before continuing. After buffing is complete vacuum all of the dust up and put on the last coat of poly. The last coat will take the longest to dry so you have a good chance now to take your time (to a point) and be real careful when applying. Once the floor is dry to the touch you can now walk on it but I would wear socks. Let it dry over night before walking on it with shoes and I would wait 24 hours or longer (depending on how humid it is in your area) before you put any furniture on it.
Many people are very partial to brands when it comes to poly. Minwax has a new water based that I am yet to try but I have heard good things about it. The stuff in the big stores like Home Depot or Lowes may be fine too. I have used the big 2 1/2 gallon containers of water based at Home Depot and have had excellent luck with it. I actually used it on a couple of my floors and I loved it. However a couple of people on this board hated it. It really comes down to what you feel comfortable with and reading as many testimonials that you can find.
All in all though, don't be afraid of water based products and give it a try diy'ing it. You will feel so proud of how it looks when you're done and you'll have saved a bundle. Hope this helped and good luck. If you need anymore help let us know!!
A few thing to be aware of with a water based is to work relatively quickly. I dont mean rush through it but don't dilly dally. A long applicator with a lambswool and a cheep edger tool (mostly used in painting) is all you need. I get the cheepo styrofoam edge tools with a felt/foam pad. Do not shake a water based poly. Instead gently turn the container upside down and gently upright. Repeat this few times. This is to avoid bubble. Many people complain with bubbles in a water based but the main reason is they shake the hell out of it in the beginning. Always work with the grain of the wood or follow the direction of the boards. Gently poor some poly out the length of the area. I will make a small puddle on one side with a long streak of poly down to the other side where I make another puddle. Have someone do the edges while you dip the main applicator in the poly and pull it up to the other side. It is almost like mopping a floor except alway working with the grain and doing long strokes to the opposite end of the floor. Work on the inside wall with the puddle of poly close to you. This is so you are really just pushing and spreading the puddles around. Slowly work your way back.
When you see an area where the poly puddling after you already applied there gently feather it out. Make sure the person doing the edges feather the edges as well to prevent excess build up. Also feather away any drips that may occur to parts of the floor you havent got to yet.
The key is to work carefully yet brisk enough, and treat the poly gently to avoid bubbles. When you poor the poly out do it gently and close to the floor.
I would recommend at least three coats. The first coat is the more difficult coat because it absorbes into the wood quicky and dries quicker. It is nice though because you can see the first coat go on much easier. After about an hour or so check the dryness by gently wipeing your hands around the floor at the part you finished last. If it dry to the touch and not tacky proceed with the next coat. The second coat will take a bit longer to dry. Be sure this coat is very dry before you proceed. When the Second coat is bone dry take a buffer and screen the floor keeping the buffer going side to side following the floor boards. Go pretty briskly. If you notice that small balls are collecting instead of dust stop immediately and let the floor dry some more before continuing. After buffing is complete vacuum all of the dust up and put on the last coat of poly. The last coat will take the longest to dry so you have a good chance now to take your time (to a point) and be real careful when applying. Once the floor is dry to the touch you can now walk on it but I would wear socks. Let it dry over night before walking on it with shoes and I would wait 24 hours or longer (depending on how humid it is in your area) before you put any furniture on it.
Many people are very partial to brands when it comes to poly. Minwax has a new water based that I am yet to try but I have heard good things about it. The stuff in the big stores like Home Depot or Lowes may be fine too. I have used the big 2 1/2 gallon containers of water based at Home Depot and have had excellent luck with it. I actually used it on a couple of my floors and I loved it. However a couple of people on this board hated it. It really comes down to what you feel comfortable with and reading as many testimonials that you can find.
All in all though, don't be afraid of water based products and give it a try diy'ing it. You will feel so proud of how it looks when you're done and you'll have saved a bundle. Hope this helped and good luck. If you need anymore help let us know!!
jeffandann
07-19-03, 04:05 AM
Thanks for the reassurance about the water-based poly, Evan. I'm a little surprised that you said to screen the floor after only the second coat and did not recommend a light sanding after the first coat. This Web site (http://doityourself.com/woodfloors/hwfintro.htm) has a complete guide to refinishing, and they recommend it between every coat with #2 steel wool. In fact, they go so far as to list "Not sanding after every coat" on their list of "Most common mistakes." Also, my Family Handyman mag, Nov. 99 I think, also recommends sanding, but after only the first of the three coats.
Any ideas for why the disparity?
Any ideas for why the disparity?
Evan M.
07-20-03, 03:21 PM
Yeah I understand what you are talkiong about when you mention the sanding between every coat thing. The reason why one screens or lightly sands between coats is to give the floor a little more "tooth" for the poly to better adhear to. I would certainly recommend this when using oil based poly. However with water based, the poly tends to (for whatever reason) raise the nap of the wood giving it texture already. This to me is enough "tooth" so I personaly don't bother screening after that first coat. It certainly wouldn't hurt if you do though. If you choose to use the water based poly, after your first coat is dry rub your hands around the floor. If it feel like it has a lot of texture (relatively speeking) than you might want to skip the screen after the first coat. If it feels very smooth that go ahead and screen. If you feel better aout screening after each of the first two coats than go right ahead, you will already have the buffer so get your moneys worth :). Good luck on whichever you choose. I think you will find the poly part relatively easy after using the drum sander and edger!! :)
Locy's Hardwood
07-21-03, 05:26 PM
DO NOT USE STEEL WOOL TO SCREEN IF USING WATERBASED!!!!
You will end up with tiny rust particles in your finish!!!
Phil
You will end up with tiny rust particles in your finish!!!
Phil