Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - >>> Considering Composites? **READ**

Listen up people.

I installed a very expensive and huge multi-level "Trex" deck 2 years ago.

"Beautifully Enduring" they say?

Trex is a sub-standard product as far as I'm concerned.

About a month or two after installation, I noticed some spots appearing all over the deck. I figured it was normal and would go away. I couldn't have been more wrong. It looks like oil splatters now covering most of the deck.

The "spots" darkened and now spread throughout the two levels of the deck. It is extrreamly unsightly, and ugly to say the least.

I contacted Trex Inc, to see what suport they could lend.

I got a response from a woman who told me it was Mold and Mildew. She explained that this was a "common problem", and that I should get some material from my local paint supplier to resolve or cover the spots. All this at my own time and expence I might add.

I bought the Trex in the first place to alieviate problems like this, and not to have to "cover" it with addtional material.

I complained again, and they assigned a customer rep, who was brand new to the job. (the last guy probably ran from this company)... this guy couldnt get my name right, and told me to send pictures of the "spots" -- which I did. After about another month, I had to send another note to wake them up.

He sent me an email stating that he thought it was Mold and Mildew also.

I spoke to the contractor who installed it, and he laughed at that response. He pointed out that the deck faces due west, and has full sun from about 11:00am to around 6:00pm daily. The boards were constructed with gaps between them so water will not pool.

The installer explained that it could not be mold or mildew, that the conditions were just not right. I want to add that I have a 12' octagon gazeebo with fiberon or something installed in there for the flooring. I inspected this material,. and thought it is under a roof, and that roof under a tree, and would be much more likely to delelop mold/mildew, there is none whatsoever. This gazeebo is about 30 feet from where the "Trex" deck is located.

I had a local Real Estate representitive look at my house to assess it's marketability. She noticed the "spots" straight away, and suggested I replace all of the damagd decking material (Trex) or have problems with a potential buyer.

"Beautifully Enduring" their ad claims. Not so.

Richard Patrick
Townline Road
Commack, LI. NY

Contact me if you'd like.
[email]richpatrick@netscape.net[/email

My opinion? The problem is very likely pollens from the tree near the gazebo that have stined the Trex deck. These pollens are the food source for the mildew spores.

First, sweep the deck thoroughly, and clean all of the debris out of the gaps. Apply a quality deck wash (Olympic, Valspar, etc.) to the deck and scrub it with a stiff broom. Wait 10 to 15 minutes, then rinse it with clear water. Now let the deck dry THOROUGHLY. (At least a day.) Now apply the deck was again, scrub, and leave it sit for an hour. Rinse again.

A regular cleaning schedule will eliminate the need for the second cleaning in the future.

Trex is low maintenance, but that does not mean NO maintenance!!

Lefty,

I appreciate your opinion, but it seems that I didn't make it really clear in the first post.

1. there was and is no pollen/dirt/debris present on the deck.

if there was any type of foreign material, it would have been removed (swept) promptly.

2. The deck is attached to my house, and the gazebo is 30+ feet away from the deck under a tree (oak). Where it is probably more moist, and subject to tree pollen and such. However the fiberon floor is not "spotted" at all, and is of course, under a roof on the gazebo.

3. The professional installer we used is probably one of the most reputable deck guys we could find, and was stunned at what has occured on the deck. It was the installer who pointed out that the Trex deck faced due west, and had gaps so water could not pool, and that it is in full sun for most of the day. He was at a loss to explain why this occured.

4. The people from Trex Inc. have made it abundently clear that they bear no responsibility in this matter. Again, the installer (who does Trex repair work) stated that Trex Inc. would bear responsibility as the product was obviously defective.
The Trex Inc. customer service representitive told me that based on the pictures I sent it was "mold and mildew".
The installer stated that it was virtually impossible to detect mold and mildew from the pictures I sent. He mentioned that the deck would have to be conssiderally older to "show" spots like this if they were mold or mildew, when the deck sits in the full sun for most of the day.

I'll attach a few of the files for your edification also.

lemme know what you think about this Pic.

Richard Patrick

Usually companies have regional representatives that are supposed to take care of issues with dealers. Perhaps you should suggest that Trex send out their local rep to inspect the Trex material. I can't imagine they would refuse, as this issue is obviously going to taint their image and redirect potential customers. I agree that I can't see how they can determine what is wrong by a couple of pictures.

Hey, I'm originally from Phila.

Thanks for the response.

As stated in my original post, there was a regional customer service rep, who has dodged me, and my emails, and phone calls.
I was really taken back by their lack of service for such a well known comapny.

He asked that I send him Pictures of the damage, I did. He waited a week,and several email before he acknowledged receiving them. Them ater pressing him via email, he wrote back that :we" have determined that the spots were caused by Mold and mildew.

He suggested that I purchase material from the local paint store (at my own exspense) to cover or stain the spots.
I felt this was a very poor solution and actually not a solution at all. I have asked several times for a personal visit for a proper inspection, but his reply is "i'm too busy". Actually he's based out of NJ, and Im in Long Island. So he'd have to travel for about an hour and a half to get to me.

I'm really upset at the response and service that Ive received.

Richard Patrick

Don't take "I'm too busy" as his answer. Ask him when his earliest opportunity would be to make a trip to Long Island. Anybody in any kind of business has a calendar, and if you go out far enough, there's nothing on it.

If that doesn't work, escalate your dissatisfaction to a higher level in the company. Be a pest, call once a day to let them know you are still dissatisfied.

Good luck.

I reread your post, and it never states whether you actually tried to scrub the spots off or not.

Did you try anything near Lefty's suggestions on any of the affected areas?

I've been doing a lot of research concerning this issue, and the general consensus seems to be that Trex will grow mold and mildew, and you do have to wash it off. No maintainence, uh-uh. LOW maintainence apparently.



Hey Lefty, of all the composites you've used, which ones do you like the best, and why?

Richard,

You have every right to be upset with Trex -- like creiter suggested, "be a pest". You've got the name, e-mail address and phone # of this regional rep, who is avoiding you. Find out who his supervisor is and try dealing with that person. You know the routine -- just be the sqeekiest wheel you can, and sooner or later you will get some grease!!

You haven't said, but I'm willing to bet that your Trex deck is the Natural color. That one is the worst about showing the spots and discoloration that you are talking about. I have dealt with several of them that were looking just like yours looks. Cleaning them, and keeping them clean, has always worked for me.

creiter,

I've built dozens of redwood decks, and looked at thousands. Lots of maintenance, and in 15 or 20 years, you are replacing it. I have built about a dozen Trex decks. The trick seems to be to keep them clean.

I have built decks with the old 2X6 Weather Best (extruded, hollow) and, from an installers viewpoint, didn't like it at all. If I face screwed it, I couldn't seem to totally sink the screws. If I used clips, like Simpson DBT1's, the toe screws were too easy to drive through the side. They quit making it before I had a chance to use a system like Deck Master with it, but I'm thinking that would have worked best. Haven't had a customer who asked for one of the new 5/4 Weather Best decks yet. But that is a solid composite -- it should behave more like Trex.

Haven't built, but have seen 2 decks built with NexWood. (Another hollow composite.) At a year old, neither owner was happy with them. Some of the boards were twisting.

If there is a 'perfect, zero maintenance deck material' out there, I have yet to find it. WHEN I put a deck in my yard, it will be Trex -- a combination of Saddle and Woodland Brown colors.

I guess it's a little too late for me to go with something other than evergrain, since I'm up to installing stairs and benchs made with the product.

It's a solid composite that comes in various colors with, somewhat real woodgrain, I think it's visually nicer to look at than trex, which I thought looked fake.

but after all these cons about composites I'm a little worried that the extra money I spent might not be worth it.

As far as escalating your problem with Trex, going up the chain one rung at a time can be painful. I've had excellent results by finding out who the very top dog is and casually calling and asking to speak to them. I never actually do get to the president but I've always gotten a call back from a higher up assistant that takes care of me. With a company that is public I go thru their financial filings online to find out who's who. Here's a link to Trex's top people:

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=twp&script=2200&layout=7

Looks like Robert Matheny is the person you should start with, he's listed as their Director/President/CEO. Don't be afraid to call and ask for this guy, if he's any kind of president he want's to know that the true end-user customers are satisfied.

As a note, I have saddle colored Trex in my yard for about a year now, still too kinda early to see any problems and so far I love it.

Thanks for all the information. I'm in the first stage of selecting materials for a deck/porch combo on my house. My purist builder wants me to use maranti mahogany. My purist soul agrees, my practical mind says go composite. I was leaning towards Trex, now not so sure.

An idea for dealing with Trex: let them know loud and clear about this conversation thread. Point them to this website abd issue. Lots of people use this site - and Trex would/should want to look good as far as quality and customer service is concerned.

MsAnnie, MeffaDawg, raphster, lefty, and creiter,

Thanks so much for reading and responding to the original post.

I will read all posts, and post what news is forthcoming regarding the situation.

I have taken your advise and put it into action.

My attorney suggested that I post in here and a few other places as well, and let them know.
I served notice to Trex about the same time this thread was started.

Well, wouldn't you know that I just received a call from the Director of Logistics and Customer Service located in Whinchester, VA.
The paperwork he has only relates to very current emails. (Beginning of May)
Where is all the history? My first contact with Trex, Inc was in Feburary 2003).

He did have the pictures I had emailed. He reinterated that it was Mold and Mildew. He further explained that they have looked at this problem under an electron microscope. (they never sampled my deck material)
He offered to have my deck professionally cleaned at their expense. he further explained in a low undertone, that this would last mebe a year. A YEAR!!! Holey Christ Almighty!!!

I bought the Trex so I wouldn't have to do this!!!!!!
I told him to send me his "offer", (probably with a release attached) and I would have my attorney look at it.

I can't beleive it.

"Beautifully Enduring" -- no, I don't think so.

Richard Patrick

P.S. I'll keep u all posted.

I'm very confused by this thread. So please don't take it the wrong way.

2) Every piece of paperwork I have for my ChoiceDeck say ALMOST maintainence free. Not, "Install it, and Ignore it."

3) If it is mold/mildew, it can be dealt with. If you don't think it is mold/mildew. Simple. Prove it.

4) They have Trex all over down the shore in NJ -- and I can tell you that it is riddled with "black spots" all over the place -- especially toward the edges where the soil meets the curb. That being said... look for damp areas, and see what can be done.

Good Luck -- I just had to share,

Mike

silly mike.. read your post and you mention weatherbest. do you have some experience with it?? we just gave he go-ahead to our builder to use this material, along with TrapEase screws, and hoping we made the right choice in composites.

SillyMike,

Thanks for your reply, however

4. I'm talking about my problem with Trex, Inc, their advertising,
and representation of "Beautifully Enduring", as their ads claim, and thier lack of response, and overall sub-par customer service.
5. Specifically, I have a problem with the fact that it was Trex's representation via their promos, and ads that their product was far superior to wood, and infers no maintianence.

There is a difference between imply, and infer. look it up.

6. My experience after about two years is that Trex totally misrepresented their product. I was never told in any way, shape of form, that I had to maintain this deck, or that it would br susceptable to and or develop mold or mildew. Again, they (Trex), and their subsequent advertizing INFERRED that the Trex product was superior to wood, and INFERRED that using Trex would alieviate general maintainence, and would last a long time and look new (besides a little fading) for a long time.

7. I had a an Independent Real Estate agent look at my property.
Going out the back door, onto the deck, she exclaimed right away, "oh no, what happened here?", "this will never do".
She explained that even though the deck was under two years old, the spots made it look older or damaged, and would give prospective buyer a wedge to negotiate. So therein lies my problem. I know that the deck isn't severly damaged, I know it probably IS mold and mildew, however, Trex never represented the fact that this material would be suseptable to pervasive mold and or mildew after a scant two years.

8. I was NOT prepared for Trex's sub-par customer service.
I didn't expect something for nothing, but when they decided that the problem was mold and mildew, they suggested I use some material which I could pick up at my local paint or hardware store, at MY EXPENSE. Sorry, I may have been born at night, but not last night.

9. Overall, this experience has opened my eyes to the standard of doing business in America. Market the product with the best advertizing $$$ can buy, imply this, and don't even talk about that unless you have to, and only deal with it if it becomes a major problem. Well, for me this IS a major problem. The value of my home is severly diminished, and thereby I'm damaged.
Trex wants to "clean" it, and their director of Logistics, and Customer Service stated, "that should last about a year".

Sorry, just NOT good enough!! After what I spent on this deck!!!!
The cost of this deck was more than double the price of a similiar wood deck, and beleive me, I didn't get what I payed for.
BTW, do you work for a composites manufacturer or rep some kinda related product?
just wondering? LMFAO

Richard Patrick

1st: Paris, nope, I've never used it. But it was a choice of WeatherBest and ChoiceDek. In the end, $ ruled and we went with ChoiceDek. I, personally, feel that WeatherBest is a better product. But that's just my opinion from looking at jobs and the material itself. It aint cheap.

TrapEase are the best. IMHO. The only thing better would be if they made that SAME exact shape in stainless. But that's another story. I did a job on the water with them, and once the coating is scratched, you know it.

On to my "friend" above.

Here's something right from their site:

What do I need to do to care for my Trex deck?
Trex decking does not require stains or sealants for protection. All you need to do to your Trex deck is to clean it periodically.

How do you clean stains on Trex decking?
For stains caused by mold, mildew, berries and leaves, conventional deck washes containing sodium hypochlorite work well. For rust stains, ground-in dirt and grime, use cleaners containing phosphoric acid. For grease and oil stains, we recommend that you scrub with a detergent containing a degreasing agent as soon as the stain occurs. A light sanding with 80-grit sandpaper works well in removing grease stains that have been allowed to set. Cleaning out your expansion gaps with a flat tool should be done along with any periodic cleaning.

One more thing. You mention nothing of certified letters to Trex, etc. You should deal with this ON PAPER via USPS Certified Mail. Not by email, and phone calls.

I'm done here.

Mike

mike. thanks for reply. we were looking at the pure plastic 'ecoboard' at $2.00 ft , but were concerned about the expanding and contracting, so went with weatherbest. which is also $2.00 ft. i just hope we made the right choice..

richpatrick.. we are down the road from you in huntington. we are building a home out in montauk with a pretty large deck (5000ft)

the key is as little upkeep as possible.

we thought we decided on the all plastic ecoboard, but after doing some additional homework, were worried about the expanding and contracting of plastic, so decided to go the composite route.

i looked at 3 trex decks and was very unimpressed. one was 4 years old and looked terrible from the warping boards .

the other 2 were under 2 years old, and also looked terrible, not with warping , but with staining.

after doing some checking,we decided on weatherbest. i hope we have made a good choice.:confused: . the problem with all the composites (other then trex) is that they have been around a short time so there is no track record

paris401, you probably made a good choice with the Weather Best. I'm assuming that you are using the 5/4 decking, which is solid. (WB stopped making their hollow 2X6.)

ANY deck (wood, composite, or vinyl) has to be taken care of if you want it to continue to look good for years. With the composites and vinyls, that means cleaning them on a regular basis. With wood, that means sealing and resealing, in addition to cleaning them. (THAT is the maintenance that the composites and vinyls eliminate!)

The Trex decks you looked at that were showing stains simply had been neglected by the owners. (Your WB will probably look the same in 2 or 3 years if you choose to neglect it.) You mention a 4 year old Trex deck with warping boards. That is almost certainly due to improper installation. I was looking at a 7-1/2 year old Trex deck last month. This one gets washed 3 times a year. Looks good (if you like the Natural color), and there isn't a warped board anyplace in the 1500 feet that it covers. (I had nothing to do with the installation.)

lefty.. u are right. no matter what decking u put down... all needs some upkeep. i've got a nice power washer, which i intend to use twice a year on the deck.

even the plastic's need upkeep - i went to the ecoboard plant here on long island, and they have sample decks in various colors

there are have a couple of sample decks side by side that are i think 7years old. one has not been touched, left to the elements and has a thin coating on it . u can scratch it off with your fingernail. this deck still looks real good.

the 2nd deck has been powerwashed each year, and looks excellent, not 100pct like brand new, but i would say 90/95pct.

a pretty impressive product.

Well, Well, Well;

HEY RICH..... GUESS WHAT! TREX SUCKS!!!!!!

Our company first started using Trex (Then called Timbrex in 1993--- YES, '93'). What we experienced led us, like you, to be sadly dissapointed with the end result. Back then, Mobile Chemical Corp. was manufacturing the product--- They dropped it like a "HOT POTATO" not long after...

After our company "Bailed-Out" on the product, we came across several high visibility installations using Trex. One such project was an almost new Water Park/Marina that had hundreds of yards of boardwalk that was originally constructed with PT wood then removed and Trex installed. It was actually safer to walk on the remaining wood portions of the structure because the Trex got so hot in 90+ degree temperatures that it was unbearable for bare feet. Worse, the screws in the planks would pull up (or snap-off) due to expansion/contraction issues causing severe injury to feet.

Our company recently lost a deck to Trex. I was 'Poo-Pooed' by the homebuilder who was a "CERTIFIED" Trex Installer. Knowing the homeowner personally, I tried to warn him... I inquired several months later if he was happy with his new Trex deck. He shot back with "I fell on my &%$@#!*** the first time I walked on the deck when it was wet." He also stated that the dull and drab appearance was not what he expected to see only a few short months after the materials were installed.

(LEFTY, I HOPE YOU ARE READING THIS.)

Our experience with Weatherbest is not too kind either. I was intrigued with the samples that I received when the material was first introduced by LP in the fall of '00'. I was looking for a more realistic wood-grained product to use on decks that would be less expensive than the vinyl decking that we offered... I took the sample and threw it in my truck-(figuring I would have it on hand to show prospective clients.) Several weeks later when I reached for the sample, it had gotten all scratched up to the point that the outer surface (what is as thin as 'contact-paper') had rubbed off in spots. (This is just from sitting on the floor of my truck...) I was not at all impressed.

My experience with other types of wood/polymer composites leads me to avoid them. Until the manufacturers design a method of attaching the planks to the wood substructure without surface installed screws. Expansion/contraction issues will eventually work the screws loose or snap them off at the ends of long spans.

Until they have a better handle on how to make all composite and solid plastic planks more slip resistant than they currently are I am not using them on my decks. (Our company received decking samples where the instructions stated that "any location on the deck that needs to be slip-resistant USE A BELT SANDER"!)--- (I'm not up to the challenge of a slip-and-fall injury lawsuit as a result of the entire deck not being belt-sanded...)

Like I tell my customers, "You get what you pay for". From our over ten years of research in alternative decking products, the absolute BEST ENGINEERED vinyl decking system is Dream Deck Mfg. by Thermal Industries Pgh., PA.

Here's Why

1). The plank is installed with no surface installed fasterers-planks snap-onto installation tracks that run the length of the plank- by simply walking on them. (Uplift tests prove that the screws will pull out from the wood before any separation occurs.)

2). The planks are structurally stronger than 5/4 PT wood decking. BOCA Code approved 24" center joist spacing.

3). The planks are co-extruded. Now this gets confusing here because everyone wants to say that a "VIRGIN-VINYL" plank is better- it isn't. Co-extruding allows the substrate or structural part of the plank to have modifiers added that make the plank stronger and more ridgid than virgin materials. (FYI It actually costs more to produce a co-extruded product.)

4). Soft vinyl cushions added on the bottom of the Dream Deck plank eliminate squeaks and noises that are common when a hollow plank rubs against wood.

5). Expansin and contraction issues are not a problem due to the plank being able to grow and shrink with temperature change. (The planks are not surface screwed but float over the installation track with one toe-screw placed through the sidewall of the plank at the center to keep the planks from 'walking'...

6). Slip resistant pattern with a crested top allows sure footed stairs, ramps, etc. in all weather conditions. Snow/ice can be removed with any type of icemelters. Due to their hollow design, the planks stay cool to walk on in hot weather.

We have installed Dream Deck for over four years now without one complaint.

After, our company was about to give-up on finding a realistic wood-grained decking product we discovered Eon in late 00.

Eon is by far the most unbelievable of all of the products we researched. It looks exactly like real wood. But it is not an imprint or film coating. The color and graining go all the way through the plank. More importantly, Eon has MORE TRACTION WHEN WET!!!! Expansion/contraction issues are not a problem due to the planks being installed with T-Clips between planks.

We have been working with Eon decking for over two years. We are well aware of some issues in the installation process that have are responsibly being addressed in the eonoutdoor.com forum. The manufacturer, CPI Plastics is currently updating the entire decking line for "04".

Stay tuned. Even given the current nusiance problems, Eon is the next best thing to sliced white bread!

Other systems we found favorable... EZ Deck (Pultruded fiberglass) (MFG. by Pultronics) Lock-Dry Aluminum decking

John@newlife

John,

Thank-You for an extreamly honest, timely, and articulate post!!!!!
This is exactly what I was hoping for someone to post.

HONESTY!

Experience with other types of products, with real-world experience.

THANK-YOU!!! The American Public Thanks You!!!

Though It may be to late for me, your informative post pretty much proves what I have said all along.

Trex is an vastly inferior product. You mentioned one thing i didn't.
How freaking HOT the deck gets in the sun!!!! I have to take the hose and "cool it off" before we use it. (i wanted to talk about quality issues)

The real problem I have is the material misrepresentation of Trex being an above average product. This simply is NOT the case.

I could have bought a nice car for what I paid for the Trex deck, and would had enough to install a nice wood deck. (at least I would have known what I was in for)

My deck simply looks terrible, and I'm damned if I'm gonna spend any money or time "cleaning it", which intails using some kinda caustic or poisonous topical application which they suggested I do myself, and would last only one year.

So, if your considering a "Trex" deck, read the above posts to be educated in the experience myself, and others have had with this inferior product.

Rich Patrick
Commack, LI NY

john.. i just opted for weatherbest after researching the various composites and plastics. i AM NOT an expert by any means, i can barely swing a hammer, but have personally looked at at least a dozen/15decks made by various materials before selecting weatherbest. i 'hope' i have made a wise decision:confused:

when u say you threw the samples in the back of your truck, i'd be interested what you mean. if u just had them lying there and they look like $hit after a couple of weeks, i think the choice i made is going to come back and bite me in the a$$.

thanks

Paris) It has to be noted that John sells a competing product and though that makes his opinion no less valid, it does have to be taken into consideration when examining his positions. For more information, hit the "www" and the "search" buttons under his post.

John) No offense intended and of course, I invite you to expand upon your opinions and experiences for the sake of the community, but I did feel that it was worth pointing-out, your involvement in the industry and the fact that you primarily post with a predetermined point-of-view.

As for Rich and I don't own a deck, nor do I build decks, nor do I have any connection to any deck manufacturers; But, you have poo-pooed Lefty's instructions as to how to fix your problem; You admitted about halfway down that most likely the company diagnosed your situation correctly and not only are you expecting a corporation to live-up to some kind of standard, you imagined while looking at some pretty pictures and banner headlines; But, you admit that you started this thread on the advice of an attorney to use as leverage to extract an out-of-court settlement from the manufacturer; Once again, I felt that all of this needed to be summarized in order to best understand your situation and I apologize if I have somehow misread your intentions.

And finally, Doug) If you feel this post is inappropriate, please feel free to edit or delete my input, as I am under the impression Rich may do to the entire thread, as part of his legal solution.

Peace, Love & Happiness;
R

John,

My in-laws installed a DreamDeck last summer. I do not particularly like it. As we have been discussing, it too has its pros and cons.

Pros:
1. Will not fade.
2. Should hold up well to UV rays and such.

Cons:
1. Looks like plastic.
2. Is creaky, due to the hollow construction.
3. Those neat little star patterns that keep you from "Falling on your @#$" trap dirt and will begin to mildew inside, JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE. Gotta scrub hard to get the dirt out.
4. $$$$$$$$$$$$ VERY EXPENSIVE per linear ft. Much more so than Trex.

I was not very impressed with the deck right from the start. I will agree that they do have the easiest fastening system going. But, as with all the other materials, there are tradeoffs. I would (and am) opting for Trex over DreamDeck.

John@newlife,

Yes, I was reading what you said, and I was listening. Now it's your turn my friend.

IF Dream Deck was indeed the perfect decking material, as you appear to be claiming that it is, why is it we don't all use that and ignore all of the others? If we did that, all of the others would simply go out of existence.

I'll tell you why. It's because there IS no one perfect deck material for everybody, same as there is no one perfect car, or one perfect house. If there were, we would all live in the same house, and all be driving the same car. Creiter developed a list of pros and cons for Dream Deck. A similar list can be developed for any decking material on the planet. An informed consumer simply has to wade through all of the pros and cons and choose the material that they feel is right for them.

And yes, Timbrex was indeed sold by Mobil Oil in '93 to a group of 4 Mobil Oil V.P.s. But I believe there were a lot of sound business reasons for Mobil choosing to make that sale, and had nothing to do with them "dropping it like a hot potato. Probably the biggest reason had to do with the impending takeover (or buyout) of Mobil by BP, and Mobil's feeling that there was some restructuring within the company that was needed before that happened.

Richpatrick, you started this thread complaining howTrex 'mislead' you with their advertising claims, and later ignored you. When did Trex tell you that their product was so great that all you had to do was to install it and forget it? I've never seen where they have made a claim like that. But I have seen, in ALL of their advertising, where their product will perform well for many years when properly cared for. I'm not an attorney, not a judge, but personally, I don't see where you have grounds to complain to Trex (or about Trex) simply because you chose to ignore your investment. Are you going to start similar proceedings against the mfgr. of your auto because you chose not to wash it and it got dirty?

And then, at the advise of some atty., you are going to come in here and start this thread to get "facts" to use in this lawsuit? You complained about the looks of your deck. Trex told you how to clean it. I told you what the problem was and how to correct it.
You finally admitted that the problem was mold and mildew, but you refuse to clean it. All I can say is when it comes time to 'harvest' the 'facts' from this thread for your suit -- EDIT CAREFULLY!!
;

I have a four year old gazebo with a Trex floor. After perusing all the comments on this thread, I went out and looked at the floor. Sure enough there were 1/2" to 1" darker grey spots on the three outer most boards, the center a homogenous grey. This does not alter my satisfaction with the floor. I doubt that I will power wash it along with my vinyl sided house which I do generally two times a year. I will soon help my son resurface his 20x12 wood deck. Most probably with Trex. I agree with the comment that if there was a perfect deck material there would only be one kind in use. Trex works for me.

Dude,

First off, your comments are a little more than off the mark.
You cannot assume what or why I did this, only I know why I did it, and here are just a "few" of the reasons.

Yes, it has to do with the way Trex represented their product in advertisements.

Yes, It does have to do with the fact that I felt Trex seriously misled me, and the general public by their deceptive advertising.

Yes, I never thought the deck would develop mold/mildew which looks like oil splatters all over the deck after a scant two years.
It looks horrible, and a potential problem like this should come with a warning label.

Oh, and yes, I didn't like Trex's initial answer to my inquiries, and their off the cuff responses that it wasn't a problem, then after I send them pictures, they say it was a problem, and can be fixed by purchasing a product (which is quite expensive) and labor at it myself. I'm not capable of doing such work (heart patient), and feel less inclined to have to hire someone to do it.

Oh, yes, I was very upset that I gave them more of a chance to discuss the "problem" with me then I should have.

Yes, I thought that if I published details of my "dilemma" for others to read and correspond with, it may help educate some other consumer(s) who, like myself, do not have the time to research every insignificant detail trying to uncover the things the manufacturer has spent serious money trying to keep from public knowledge. Fact.

I have four great kids who don't like the way the deck looks either. BTW, my wife is furious, it was my decision to use the Trex in the first place.

Yes, I went on faith that this was a product that would not give me the type of problem I now have, and...

Yes, I thought the company would be somewhat understanding, and would be eager to offer some support, and direction, not an attitude like, "yea, sounds like a problem you have there, hehe", with little interest in support or resolution.
(I can just imagine the average homeowner who contacts them and realizes it 's basically the end of the road for their "problem".

Yes, I’m very upset, I have a right to be, like I said before, this is still America, isn't it?

Yes, I paid an inordinate amount of money for a vastly inferior product that looks bad, and is getting worse by the day.

Yes, I have been told by the manufacturer of this product, that I should have to purchase "cleaning" material myself.
(At my own expense).

And Yes, I'm mad as hell that anyone assume it be my responsibility, and quite frankly, I'm a little taken back that some of you actually are surprised that I have a problem with the fact that I would have to "clean" the deck myself.

I don't get it that. I was told that I'd never have any problem except a little fading.

No one ever represented to me that I would have to do anything to the deck besides sweep it. Not apply an expensive material to clean a defect inherent in the product to begin with?
Duh!

I'm mad that I was taken in by the illusion of a maintenance free product. It does not exist.

Call me stupid, call me an unwitting consumer.

But, don't call me a placid consumer who now will go to the ends of the earth to besmirch and soil the reputation of Trex Company, who had their chance to assume responsibility for a vastly inferior product that is marketed diametric to the actual quality the product possesses. Fact.

This is just one forum where one can "expose" manufactures.
This is only the beginning. Trex only has themselves to blame.

And lefty, shame on you dude, the remark that I should "edit carefully" doesn't make any sense to me, first off, I would never do such a thing, secondly, your assumptions that I'm sueing Trex are completely mistaken, I'd loose, here I win.
It's really as simple as that.

They will suffer, through lost sales, customers and reputation.
That's what I'm accomplishing, and doing quite the job of it.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

Rich Patrick
Commack, LI, NY
richpatrick@netscape.net
US Veteren - 'Nam era

Rich,

I reread this whole thing from the beginning (again) and I was mistaken. I was under the impression (wrongly) that you were about to, or were at least thinking about suing Trex. My mistake.

Do you have a right to be upset about the way Trex handled (or, should I say, DIDN'T HANDLE) your complaints? Yes, you do. I certainly would have expected better from them.

And yes, you have the right to make statements like:

"Trex is a sub-standard product as far as I'm concerned."

I disagree with your opinion, but I would go to my grave to preserve your right to express it. (I too am a Viet Nam vet, for whatever that's worth.)

I don't think there's much question about my opinion on this matter -- you invested a lot of money in this deck, and you have the responsibility to keep it clean if you want it to look as sharp as it did the day the contractor finished it.

That brings up a point that you haven't raised yet, so I will.

The deck is Natural, right? And the contractor told you it was going to fade. In fact he should have, or at least COULD have shown you samples of the color it would fade TO in about 3 months time. (I make SURE all of my customers see that color pallet and the actual pieces, just so they know what they are getting as far as a color.) But, did the contractor also tell you that the Natural was the one that was going to show mold and mildew problems the worst? Based on what you have posted, I'm sure he didn't.

Going back to your first post, when the customer rep from Trex said it was 'mold and mildew', and the contractor said "the conditions weren't right" -- HORSE FEATHERS!! Had you been MY customer, I would have told you UP FRONT to be aware that 'the conditions were RIPE for mold and mildew to be an issue with your deck. You have the color that will show it the worst, you have the sun providing the warmth, and the tree providing the food (pollens) for mold and mildew.

Yeah, Rich, you have a bone to pick with Trex. They blew it in the way they handled their customer relations with you. But, you still haven't convinced me that they misled you with their advertising. Unless Trex uses some totally different ads on the east coast than they do on the west, I have yet to see anything in what they say that would lead me to believe that their decks are so good that you can just put them in and ignore them.

But, in my opinion, you have a much bigger bone to pick with your contractor. HE'S the one who should have told you from the start that mold and mildew were going to be a problem for you, and here's what you needed to do to take care of your deck. Had he done that, you would have been cleaning the deck on a very regular basis, the gray spots would have never appeared, and you, AND YOUR WIFE would be very happy campers!!

as a novice whose deck knowledge can be stuffed into a thimble, and have room left over, i found this thread very informative. lots of opinions and counter-opinions, tho i wish there was some more real world info on the deck i chose.. weatherbest.

Paris,

As long as you understand what you're getting you're going to be fine.

The fella that started this post had extremely unrealistic expectations of what he thought he was getting. Which, as lefty indicated, should have been discussed with the builder.

What you're getting is a product that won't spinter, warp, need to be painted/treated, etc.. But it WILL still get dirty. Meaning there isn't a union of workers that come with the deck to clean it for you. (you can hire one if you wish). But, just like on your car, if a bird poops on the deck, you should clean it. (Think about what bird poop does to car paint if you leave it there). If you don't clean it, you may end up with a bird poop stain. Get the picture? Just like anything else. If you take care of it, it'll take care of you. The point being, wood needs MORE care than composite, but not NO care.

I promised myself I'd stay out of this post since it is very clear, at least to me where it is going. -- but I know how it feels to be in your shoes...

Mike

P.S. A deck brush and a garden hose... maybe 3 times a year... quick and easy... sure as good hell beats Thompson, and splinters, and splits, and rot, etc. (I think this says it best.)

thanks mike...

Rich,

I think SillyMike is making perfect sense. You seem to be under the impression that Trex told you that your deck was going to be 100% maintenance free -- to the point that when it gets dirty, it will clean itself, or that they will come clean it for you. My question is what part of Trex's advertising was it that put that idea in your mind? I have never heard or seen anything in any of their advertising that would tend to give ME that impression, anymore than anything in Ford's or GM's (or whosever) ads would lead me to believe that I could buy a self-cleaning car, or a self-cleaning carpet, or window, or a self-mowing lawn, ...

What did Trex say that has you believing their product is 100% maintenance free??

Again, I don't have a dog in this hunt and just for the record; I generally don't wear a collar, nor do I put one on my cat. But, the following is from the "Care" portion of Trex's FAQ and it took me less than half a minute to find it which isn't bad, considering that I had never visited the website prior to this afternoon;
---

What do I need to do to care for my Trex deck?
Trex decking does not require stains or sealants for protection. All you need to do to your Trex deck is to clean it periodically.

How do you clean stains on Trex decking?
For stains caused by mold, mildew, berries and leaves, conventional deck washes containing sodium hypochlorite work well. For rust stains, ground-in dirt and grime, use cleaners containing phosphoric acid. For grease and oil stains, we recommend that you scrub with a detergent containing a degreasing agent as soon as the stain occurs. A light sanding with 80-grit sandpaper works well in removing grease stains that have been allowed to set. Cleaning out your expansion gaps with a flat tool should be done along with any periodic cleaning.

http://www.trex.com/universal/faq.asp

Gee, Rusty, wasn't that tough?? That staement, or one very similar to it is contained in at least 6 places in Trex's ads and literature. I want to know what part of their ads or promotions have led Rich to believe that Trex was a 100% maintenance free, self cleaning product.

I do have to admit that the thread has been somewhat entertaining and at times, educational. Somehow, Rich missed something I could find with three clicks and he objected to buying the chemicals himself, so apparently Trex offered to do it for him. And, I don't want to even think about the Builder, Lawyer, Realtor and Indian Chief...

Edit
---
Ok - So maybe that last line was beyond the pale, after all, somebody should've given Rich a "Care & Use" pack and my money would be on the person who sold it to him. But, it has been hard to contain my own sarcasm throughout this thread and as far as I, personally am concerned; The discussion has moved way beyond the purposes of a DoItYourself forum.

(Photo of me biting my tongue)

I left a metal piece of rebar leaning on my deck last night. As a result, I have rust stain on my rim skirt. (True)

I just got off the phone with ChoiceDek, and I am demanding that they come over right away, tear down my entire deck, and rebuild it with solid mahogany. (Not True)

LOL :)

And for the record. I have absolutely NO affiliation with any deck company, or other construction company what-so-ever. I just have some good old common sense.

Mike

You can try and steer it away from the facts, but most people will be looking for facts.

Here are a few:

Trex Inc. sells a product that in their ads, marketing material, TV, and Industry slicks "INFER" that their product will not be afflicted with Mold/Mildew, and that owning a deck made from Trex material is “Beautifully Enduring”, which imply’s it will look that way for an extended period of time.

Not so in my case.

That is basically what they say. Yea, we can go line for line, and put it all under a microscope. You can start another thread if you’re feeling so verbose.

Facts are:

I purchased a Trex material deck, and after a scant two years looks so bad that it SHOULD be replaced.
(I didn't ever mention that, or imply it, or of course, infer it). Thanks for the idea though.

I got a major, major run around in dealing with their alleged "customer service reps". Who provided little and no input or truth into what was going on with my deck.

I only originally contacted them to find out “what” it was causing the problem.
I was prepared to do what is necessary to “fix” my problem, I was simply looking for answers. I didn’t see that information on the “web site” as you mentioned regarding “cleaning” ones deck, funny how that just seemed to appear, and just “two clicks”?
I told you I checked the web site, miss that?
Of course, I have emails that prove those facts.

They basically have the same mentality that your displaying, that is:
“of course you have to maintain the deck, you use this type of cleaner”.
No big deal you say.

Maybe.

But if I or anyone out there who invests the kind of good money they get for Trex for their deck, then finds out like I did (after two years) that the product is highly susceptible to Mold/Mildew like I did would be suitably angry.

I know the mechanics of applying a “cleaner”, however, had I been aware that I would possibly had to apply a “cleaner” after two years because the material looks so bad, and looks damaged, and poor, then I definitely NEVER would have used Trex material for my deck in the first place.
THIS IS THE MESSAGE GUYS!!!!

The problem is you don’t seem to want me to get the word out.

I’m publishing this for no other reason to “enlighten” other potential Trex users of one of the problems inherent in the Trex material after the first hand experience I have had with the Trex product.
Never in all the soliciting for hard facts about Trex material, and it's "pros" or "cons", did I come accross that the product was suseptible to Mold/Mildew. have you?

I don’t feel I have to explain things other then the “delemia” as I mentioned in my earlier post(s).
keep it light, please.

Rich Patrick
Commack, LI, NY

Rich; I'm with everyone else...

Obviously, you feel that you were misled; Obviously, you feel that your Customer Service inquiry could've been better handled and you have more than documented your complaint for the benefit of the community.

I clicked into the FAQ because your complaint sounded like something which should be a "Frequently Asked Question" and while reading through the file after my last posting; I discovered other things about the material, including the weathering subject which has been broached by other participants in this forum, several times and I found a link to their warranty which specifically names mold and mildew as something for which they are not liable.

You are unhappy and apparently there is nothing anybody can do about this; You have been told how to deal with your problem and you became a squeaky-enough wheel that the company has agreed to apply the chemicals for you. You have voiced your complaint several times and I invite you, whenever someone inquires on these pages about purchasing Trex, chime-in with your caution about mold/mildew and point-out that they are not warrantied.

But, it's really time to give this thread a rest because your point has been made; You don't feel that you were adequately informed, you feel that two years is a short timeframe and you have done your part informing others of your situation; For this, we thank you.

Keep Passing Open Windows;
R

I was trying to be quiet, but well, you struck a nerve...

People like YOU are why America is going down hill. YOU are the one who refused to accept responsibility. YOU stated that:

"What you fail to realize is the fact that the average consumer isn't going to read the small print, isn't going to solicite the exact information from the FAQ, if they can locate it at all, and will go on trust like I did, and be let down. woe is me/us."

What YOU fail to realize is that it is YOUR fault for not reading the fine print. YOUR FAULT, YOURS! It's a tough world out there, not everybody is going to think for you. There is fine print everywhere, on everything. Watch out for it, and READ it. You're sick of Corporate America's customer service? I'm sick of people like you who think they never have to accept any responsibility for their actions. Hell, you even have a lawyer. YOU are the reason that my Trex deck will cost more than it should, because Trex has to deal with people like YOU. They have to spend money to try and placate YOU (professional deck cleaning - not a bad offer) which raises the cost of my new deck to compensate. YOU are the kind of person who sues McDonald's because you got fat and they didn't explicitly tell you that the burgers would make you fat. IT'S CALLED COMMON SENSE.

If you really want to sue somebody or yell alot, go yell at the contractor who put your deck in. Did Trex build your deck, or did the contractor build your deck? Did you ask Trex directly if you never had to do ANYTHING to your deck? What was their reply? Or did you ask your contractor? What did HE say?

I'm truly sorry that you had the experience you did, but you have to accept responsbility for your own actions at some point.

This thing is still going??

Rich, explain this to me.

You saw the words “Beautifully Enduring” in Trex's advertising (which I have found in one spot so far), and, from that, you "infer" that it is a product that you can install the product and it will take care of itself -- you have to do nothing more.

I've gone through Trex's advertising, and in at least 6 places, I see where they discuss "Mold and Mildew", and how to deal with it. From that, I would "infer" that mold and mildew may be a problem, but there are ways to deal with it.

"Nuf said"

This argument is getting out of hand and can't be allowed to continue. Disagreements are acceptable in a post up to a point and this has gone way past acceptable. This post is closed until I deciced what I'm going to do about this situation. Since some of this thead is worth keeping, I will make sure it survives in some form.