Doors and Windows - Rotted patio door frame/styles

I have an exterior twin patio door with solid side panels on both sides. The styles and side panels are rotting. For the last few years it wouldn't accept paint and now you can poke a screwdriver through the wood. This door is for an entrance to a (swimming) pool room that is mounted over flagstone and is on the North side of the house. I suspect over the years (14 years) the door styles and side panels have wicked up enough moisture from the damp flagstone to rot the lower 10" to 14" of the styles as well as the solid side panels.

Is this something that can be cut out and repaired or do I need to replace the entire door and side panels?

Thanks,
Kooter

Given the age and damage to the door, I would be inclined to replace it. Be sure to paint the undersides of the replacement unit before installation and caulk thoroughly to keep moisture out.

Hope this helps.

I was afraid that would be the answer! The door is quite expensive. Is there any way that some vinyl could be used somehow?

Bob ///M3

You might also want to put a strip of sheet metal, aluminum flashing, tarpaper, etc on the bottom before you install the door as a vapor barrier.

I make a "drip" pan out of aluminum in the shape of a Z turned on edge with a slight up lip on the inside and whatever it takes outside to lap over the siding, deck, etc, after seeing how much damage to subfloors I've seen when replacing doors over the years.

You could certainly replace the wood door with a vinyl door -- been doing that for a long time!

When you say "twin patio door with solid side panels on both sides", I assume that you are talking about a 10' door.

Check with your local glass shops. A new door is going to be in the range of $1,000 -- installation will be extra. No reason why you can't do it yourself, but transporting the 10' door may prove to be a challenge!

Here is some additional information and a question concerning the type of material to use for my project.

To refresh you on my situation, I'll be having this repair work done soon on an exterior (double patio style) door that includes some blank side panels - one on either side of the double door set. This door is used to enter a small poolroom that has the pool pump, a shower and small sink/bar that is located in a rather moist area and on the North side of the house.

The reason why I need the repair work is because over the years moisture has gotten into the bottom of the two side panels where they sit directly on a flagstone terrace. Obviously the wood was never treated, or painted, and no barrier was put down to reduce the chance of moisture getting into the wood. The bottom 10" or so of each panel has rotted along with the 2x4 plate behind them, which must be replaced also. Unfortunately a small portion of one side of the double door set (where the groove is located to accept the screen door when fully opened) has some rot as well but I believe that can be saved by cutting it out and rebuilding it with new wood. So this explains what I'm up against...

Here is my question! The fellow that is going to do this repair work for me is suggesting that I use a PVC coated board for the blank side panels that are on either side of the double door set. He showed me a sample and the board. It was white in color and felt smooth on one side and slightly rough on the other. It felt [to me] that it was made of fiber with a thin layer of plastic (PVC) over it. It looked like the type of material used in cheap kitchen cabinets or furniture like a chest-of-drawers. I'm not sure what to call the material...but I'm very concerned whether it should be used for exterior use.

Can anyone give me some thoughts about this material he suggested that I use (if you know what it is)...and whether it is okay for exterior use. Also, what would you use to replace these blank side panels if it was yours? Pine wood or something else.

I have included a link to some pictures of the double door set with the side panels that has some close-up shots so you can see what it looks like:

Pool Room Door pictures (http://bobcrews.homestead.com/PoolRoomDoor.html)

Thanks!

Kooter

Looking at the pictures is quite helpful. It appears that the doors themselves are intact. If that is the case, I would take out all the rotted material and replace it in kind with wood. Make sure that the wood is painted prior to installation, and caulked then, finish painted after installation.

If the water on the door glass is any indication of the normal use for this door, it would be prudent to thoroughly check the door and trim annually for caulking or paint failure.

While you are at all this, take the doors down and make sure the bottom edge is painted to prevent wicking moisture into the stiles.

I doubt that the particular material of the panels themselves is as important as the right preparation, installation, and painting.

Hope this helps. And thanks for the pictures.

I think what this guy is suggesting that you use is melamine -- FORGET IT!! It won't stand up to the moisture.

The picture were indeed helpful. Looks like you are dealing with an area that is a 9' opening overall (two 3 foot doors and about 18" of solid panels on each side). What is the tan colored siding we are looking at? (Stucco?) Could you use that siding to close the opening down to a 6 foot opening, and eliminate the side panels?

Another option (and certainly more expensive) would be to locate a vinyl french door unit that is 9' wide -- two 36" doors and an 18" side panel on each side -- essentially the set up you now but in vinyl instead of wood.

Yeah, I figured the pictures would be helpful to see what was going on. The water shown on the doors was the result of a thunderstorm that just passed through minutes earlier. The tan color wall surrounding the door is stucco. I would prefer not to replace the door set with another one however I may elect to do that...and if so I would choose one made of vinyl.

I believe I will stay away from replacing the solid panels with anything but real wood. That particular product the guy showed me (melamine) just didn't look like it would stand up to exterior use. I could picture that stuff (in my mind) expanding and getting all puffy very quickly.

Another question? What type of wood would you recommend using if you had the choice of something other than pine. Maybe oak or some other hardwood?

Thanks for your imput!

Kooter

I added a few pictures to the link so you can get a better idea where this door is located on the house. There is a terrace above the pool room. you'll see and then a few pictures of the house and pool.

Pool Room Door including pool and house pictures (http://bobcrews.homestead.com/poolroomdoor.html)

Kooter

White oak is a closed cell wood and naturally is resistant to water damage. Spanish cedar. Ipe.

Thanks for that suggestion to use white oak - I appreciate that.

Other than priming and painting all sides of the wood before installing it what type of barrier do you suggest that I put down between the flagstone and the wood? Something like roofing paper? Or thick mil plastic?

Thanks!

Kooter

Thick plastic would probably outlast roofing paper.

Okay! Thanks for the information that using thick plastic would be better than roofing paper.

I used a rubber mastic, which when it dries forms a rubber membrane on my terraces before laying the tile. The product is called Ultraseal (by Bostik). I don't know if you are familiar with this product but it may be a good idea to create a moisture barrier. The main reason why I used it on the terraces is because I didn't want any water to get into the pool room that is underneath one of the terraces.

Here is a link for the Ultraseal:

Ultraseal (by Bostik) (http://www.bostikfindley.com.au/bostik_news_stuff/ultraseal/ultraseal.htm)

Please let me know what you think of using Ultraseal for my barrier. Thanks!

Kooter

I have received a few estimates to replace and repair my door and side panels. The one I believe I'll end up going with is suggesting a 6ft full-view swing-type fiberglass door. I like the idea of it being made of fiberglass (I think) so I won't have to be concerned about it rottening again.

Also, the blank side panels will be replaced with new ones made of oak so they will hold up to the dampness better. However, I need to talk to him to see if those can also be made from fiberglass. Any thoughts from anyone if that is possible?

Can anyone give me their opinion and/or advice on using a fiberglass door in lieu of a PVC clad or wood door. The fiberglass sounds [to me] to be the way to go. I would just like to have a confirmation!

Thanks!
Kooter

I think fiberglass may be a more durable alternative to wood or PVC clad.

Well, I finally got my new fiberglass door installed for the pool room to replace the rotted wood door and side panels. It looks great!

The door is fiberglass and the side panels and moldings are PVC. I had to replace the 2x4 support studs on both sides of the door opening with new ones because they were also rotten at the bottom. And I had to replace the 2x4 floor plates (made of pine) located behind the side panels with new (treated) ones. Now there is nothing that can wick-up moisture and rot again.

A picture of the new door can be seen this link. The new door is the last picture in the series: Pool Room Door Pictures (http://bobcrews.homestead.com/PoolRoomDoor.html)

Kooter

I need some advice on whether to paint my new PVC/Fiberglass door.

Is was planning on painting my new door and began searching to find out if there was a special method to prepare new PVC or fiberglass material for painting (i.e. sanding, special primer, etc.). But after doing some reading I've learned that many of the companies that manufacture PVC windows and doors promote the benefits of not having to paint their products, i.e. truly maintenance-free except for an occasional cleaning.

Since the trim of my house is painted white I'm really satisfied with the natural white color of the door so maybe I shouldn't paint my new door! What's the need, right? Then I would never have to paint it again in the future...

I would like to have your thoughts about leaving the newly installed door unpainted. Is that what you would do if it was your door?

Thanks!

Kooter