Designing Kitchens and Bathrooms - Ceramic Tile Shifting Walls

We have a tub with ceramic tile for the walls. Behind the tile flush to the lip of the tub (old type from 1968, but in perfect shape...the edges of the tub curl slightly up) is Hardibacker cement board. The problem we have with our house is that during the winter the walls shift. I put new support jacks to level things, but though it is better, it still shifts when the winter comes and then again when warmer weather comes (my suspicion is ground swelling). You can tell this happens because the bathroom door in the summer moves easily, but when the winter comes it occasionally hits the ceramic tile floor. Anyway, because of this in a few places on the edges of the tile walls the grout has seperated slightly. The areas are in the corners of the wall and perhaps one or two small spots along the edge of the tub. Luckily I put caulk and such in the corners. Also, the gaps are so small that no water seems to be getting through.

My question is that since I have this shifting and since it would currently be too much too me for get the shifting taken care of what is the best way to prevent the gaps. My plan is to grout some of the spots again and then use tub and tile caulk to caulk all corners. My assumption is that the caulk will be a little flexible to handle some of the shiffting. Also since its now warm weather I would have thought the gaps would be smaller since the wall would tighten, but it has not so my guess is that its settled and won't shift too much. Thoughts and advice? Thanks in advance.

Jimmy,

Whatever is suggested is just a band aid at best and this movement is not a good sign! Too many things moving!

You may want to use 100% Silicone caulk as this will do better at adhesion and the movement issue than acrylic latex base caulk.

Next best thing is to get a 2 or 3 pc tub/shower unit that can be attached directly to the studs. I know this is more than you want to do but until you get the foundation issue repaired, buy more caulk!

Good Luck!

Thanks. I think the tub tile caulk may work. I had a section of tile that is kind of like a little seat on the end of the tub and due to us putting pressure on it settling occured. I used Liquid Nails tub and tile caulk and since then even with the other shifting it has not seperated. So I am going to try it after I grout again and see how it goes. Your right though. I need to eventually get the foundation issue taken care of. The stud idea is not a bad one, but since the foundation is shifting the studs do too. The layout I am afraid is not condusive to one of those single piece deals. My other idea is to someday use that new tile like plastic or acrylic walls.

Thanks for the advice.

Hey, Doug, I know the foundation can shift in winter due to freeze and thaw. What corrections can be done to prevent this. If the foundation is shifting so much that it is causing the framework of the home to shift, this sounds rather serious.

Let me clarify I am guess its the foundation. It appears to be just one side and one section of the house. It may simply be due to settling over the last 34 years the house has been here. When we first moved in the door above the master bathroom had a nice 1 inch dip in it. I noticed that the area the bath was in was like that in the same section. I proceeded to get those crank jacks from Lowes. The dip is no longer noticiable, but as I said you can tell there is shifting because of the door. I read up on the symptoms and in several places what I found they said it is usually due to soil swelling. Supposedly in the winter the ground gets harder and rises, while the summer it gets softer. Its funny because the ground below in the crawlspace is not wet at all. However you can see the slight splits or cracks in a very small section of the blocks where it is shifted. Nothing significant though.

Anyway, I may be totally wrong. The problem may simply be that after I did the tile since we had not used the tub very much just the weight of us in it cause to settle. I still suspect the shifting as it only seems to be happening in the corners as it looks like it has shifted. I wish I could afford to the foundation fixed or the structure underneath looked at and jacks in the appropriate places, but since I know structural engineers cost big bucks its going to be atleast a year or two before I can get one out.

twelvepole,

Not knowing the age of the home which normally would be a key to what might be happening. If I go off of the tub, it's a 1968 home. Codes in use at the time were good and construction methods were good but all depends on how inspectors performed on this project as well as contractors.

I am not sure where this home is located but I fear the issues could be, but not limited to, the following;

Unstable soil conditions - this could be the soil itself or water table issues but no mention of water problem issues. This severe movement would surely have an effect on other things from the bottom up.

Poor Foundation - Not deep enough - if the footings are not deep enough, the freeze will surely make this home raise in winter. It sounds like this has been going on for years so this is a major issue.

Based on what is going on in the bathroom, tiles, gaps, door operation, we are not talking SMALL fractions of an inch. If the footings were improperly constructed, they may have fractures which would cause some shifting on one side of the home. I have seen this in a couple of homes. Major cost to repair. I'm sure that if a good inspection was done, there might be some major cracks within the foundation walls and of course, what ever else is happening on main floor and above.

Just some thoughts...

My house is located in Chattanoog, TN. We go from very hot to about 3 months of cold (20's 30's). I would say it was an ongoing problem, but as to the cause I am not sure. We did have a big problem with drainage and to some extent a small problem still, but on the opposite end of the house (the main floor is 2200 square feet). However I recently had major excavation done on that side to fix the problem. Prior I had other work done also to fix the drainage. Now all water is going away from the house. It took a lot of work, but it has been worth it. Another thought I had at one time was that we have in the problem corner two trees, a Magnolia and some medium size one (Iron Rod my wife says). The Magnolia I cut down once as it was pushing on the eave of the house. The other I have trimmed, but that is it. I thought perhaps its roots had pushed up on the foundation as it just this one corner and my guess was this was not something that happened rigth away. However, this does not explain why the door issue from winter to summer. As I said I hope to get someone out here in the future to look at it and see what I cna do to repair it. Thanks again for the comments.

When it comes to architecture and specifications, I always defer to our beloved Doug. Temperature and humidity fluctuations can also take a toll inside and outside a home as well as freeze and thaw. Fluctuations of the foundation can present structural problems. It is important to assess these. Make sure soil is landscaped to drain around foundation, especially if you are sitting in a low spot. Soil should be landscaped to move excess water away from foundation and gutters and downspouts clear to carry exess moisture away from foundation. As Doug stated, we may be looking at unstable soil and foundation conditons. It may be time to call in the local building inspector or building engineer. I know that getting expert advise will tend to be expensive, but it may be worth it to protect the investment in your home.