Home Automation - A Couple of Queries?

Once again, I'm in one of those places where I get to show my ignorance, so before I begin, I should ask for your indulgence. I have a few questions on a few topics, so to make it easier, I'll divide them into my usual sections.

<FONT STYLE="color:darkred;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:700;">Intercom</FONT>

We bought the fixer-upper knowing that we will sell it, so resale value is my primary concern followed by appraised value, because if we don't sell it within a certain period of time, my wife's employer "purchases" the house at it's appraised value until a buyer is found.

Because my house is comprised of several offsets and because it'd be difficult to shout from one corner to another, I'd like to install an intercom system and for the reasons listed above, I need for it to be hard-wired because you can't really sell a box on the nightstand.

Most of the systems with the built-in radios/cd players are wicked expensive and though, I assume they have better speakers, personally I would like the ability to pipe internet radio into the system. CD's are nice, but they can also be played on a computer. Where we live, we basically have only a few radio stations; I have lived in areas with great radio, but this ain't one, so personally I would prefer to be able to pipe better radio from the internet throughout my home.

Now, having only done some research on the subject; I need to ask if anyone is familiar with the speaker quality on the <A HREF="http://www.nutone.com/product-detail.asp?productid=3054">Nutone Model IMA-516</A> and because I've never laid eyes on one, except possibly in the doctor's office; Am I interpreting the following pitchline correctly "Auxiliary program audio input allows distributions of music to all stations"? Does this mean that I connect external audio and does anyone know what kind of connectors it uses, or is there something else to buy that is not listed?

Does anyone have any other suggestions as to a hard-wired intercom with decent speakers that can accept external audio? I will need at least nine stations, plus at least two door, preferably three and I'm looking for a system that won't break the bank for a luxury?

<FONT STYLE="color:darkred;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:700;">Data</FONT>

OK - This is the hard part and I might, possibly should begin by asking if anyone could recommend a good book?

Before we bought the house, I simply had in my head to star-wire each room to an individual hub and homerun the hubs back to a main hub. After all, I have several 10-baseT hubs, though I have a couple fewer than I had before, because I gave some away. But basically, four outlets and a four-port for each room is what I had envisioned.

Now, I'm considering using some of these <A HREF="http://www.siemon.com/literature/product-specsheets/pdf/66-block.pdf">Siemon S66M1-50</A> blocks that I have laying around which were originally used for telephone, but according to the literature will work with true cat5e data, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

Though for the life of me, I don't know what purpose they would serve; For the phone lines, a big line came in one side and a bunch of individual lines came out the other. Of course, I'm at a loss when it comes to the actual wiring of the things, because I bartered out for those services. But what purpose would be served by wiring cat5 to one side and then, wiring cat5 out the other? Or, am I missing something? Or, because these things are cheap, should I just put them back in the box and forget about them?

Here's what I'm trying to do and hopefully they'll be some suggestions;

Of course, I want to network the house and have multiple ports in each room. I'd also like to give the future homeowner the maximum flexibility when it comes to sourcing high-speed internet for the house and because I live in a place with a high poverty rate, I want to do this as least expensively as possible.

Right now, I am using dialup; I went from a T-1 to Frame Relay to desert dialup; Qwest says that we'll have dsl by the end of the quarter; The cable company is Comcast, so eventually they will have something available, but there's no timetable in place; I do have access to a couple of wireless internet providers, but I didn't go with them, though I would like to keep them as a viable option along with satelite.

I'm basically doing what could be called a curb-to-curb rewire; So, the walls should be considered open; I want multiple outlets in each room for maximum design flexibility; I'd like something halfway state-of-the-art, because the primary market for my home is a scientist who is making several times the median income, but I've got to keep things realistic because most homes in this market are reduced two or three times, before they sell; Resale and appraisal value are my primary considerations.

Any thoughts? Any suggestions? Anything wrong with my star-wiring theory and/or what would be the benefit of employing the 66-blocks? Any other suggestions?

Peace, Love & Happiness;
Thanks in Advance;
R

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<I>I'm not aware of too many things; I know what I know, if you know what I mean. - Brickell</I>

I have considered what you are planning in the way of flexibility and cost for maximum data access and flow. As you have seen in the photographs, I have a star-wired cat5 system.

When I planned it, I wanted to be able to have it done. As much flexibility as possible, reasonable cost, and manageable work. I had installed two cat5 lines to each room, except for the office where I installed six lines and the kitchen with four. One of these lines in each room is intended for use as a telephone line.

In the realm of many connections per line, it seems that an ad hoc increase in the need for access from any room could be resolved by adding a hub in the room. This hub can provide access to the router for all the computers in the room. This is limited by the ultiimate number of devices managed by a router being 254. In most instances, this will not be a problem for the home network. If there were a need for four computers in a room with only one cat5 line, then a four port hub could be installed in the room, giving access for the four computers.

I have not checked prices lately, but it seems that the cost of a hub may be less than even the initial cost of the added wiring and receptacles and such to provide an additional line. I would certainly be cheaper than retro-fitting a room to add lines.

This added hub would not be the best solution in the case where the needed addition is to resolve the matter of an 8p8c outlet at one end of a long room and needing to have access at the other.

I don't know the incremental cost of wiring a new home at the time of construction, but I can see that installing cat5 with video on every wall would be a good idea. Electric power was once minimally distributed in a house, now there is an outlet every ten feet or so.

I suspect that the next step in structured wiring may be to implement space allocation for a wireless component at the central wiring point to accommodate the roaming user in the building or yard.

Thanks Chris; I went back and read your words; I had the photos in my head, but I wanted to read the words again only it had gotten quite late and I simply called it a night; But, I went back and read them this morning and it sounds like we're on the same page.

I already have several <A HREF="http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=59&grid=2">Linksys Ethernet 5-Port Workgroup Hubs</A> leftover from when I had psuedo-cybercafes. I would have more, but when I was offloading some wicked old computers to a couple of ham operators, I also gave them enough stuff to start their own bbs and for some reason, I also gave them a couple of hubs, though I don't know why except possibly pity, but that's another story.

Anyway, I've got these <A HREF="http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?prid=59&grid=2">Linksys Ethernet 5-Port Workgroup Hubs</A> and as I said in my first post, but just walked out to the shed to see exactly what they are in order to link to the productpage; My initial idea was to star-wire each room to a hub; One hub, per room, but installed in a manner which would be considered both hard-wired and upgradable. Of course, if I could get a handle on data loss, I could theoretically wire each outlet back to the distribution center, but that would entail a <U>lot</U> of wire. So I'm thinking more along the lines of having a couple of sub-centers that would house the room hubs and homerun from the room hubs back to the distribution center where you would be faced with a single (larger) hub and each port would be labeled as to the room; So theoretically, Daddy could pull the plug on the kid's roomhub, thus cutting-off their internet access.

And of course, all of this is also because I am operating under the impression that just because there is an unused cable from the hub to the wall, it wouldn't result in any appreciable degradation of the signal. After all, I have built networks in the past, but I hadn't never worried about signal-power, before.

Also, because these hubs that I own are kinda old, if someone thinks I might be better served by installing the alternative that I mentioned in my first post, or possibly a better grade of hub; I'd love to hear about it; I should have enough of these Linksys to do for now, but I can't be sure how many I still own without going through a few more boxes. So, if I end-up buying more hubs; Is there a more modern system that I should migrate toward as I get closer to my sell-date which is in three years.

(And please, when commenting don't forget about the possible Siemon solution)

As for the remainder of the Home Networking system; I'm also planning to run phone and two coaxes for video to each outlet. But, I haven't really gotten into thinking about the phone too much yet and for the video, I'm still trying to figure-out how to replicate the Leviton system, because I really like the concept of being able to watch the DVD player from any room in the house; But those two systems will most likely be another thread.

As for the incremental cost of wiring each wall; Of course, you've got cable, but the best I can figure the only other high-dollar cost would be the interfaces; But unless I can find a deal to start, I'm probably just going to run wire to all of the boxes and install one or two working receptacles and put blanks over the others until we get closer to selling the place. Or at least, that's the plan, right now.

Any Additional Comments?
Any Suggestions? Anyone?
What do you think of my plan?

Thanks Again & Thanks in Advance;
R

PS) Basically, I'm talking about having in the neighborhood of 40 outlets and about eight roomhubs, because one hub, one room is a slight exageration.

OK - I may have answered my own question about whether I should get something better, if I need to buy any hubs. I hadn't looked at Linksys because I already have several hubs, but just surfing around a bit, I discovered <A HREF="http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=31&prid=148">Linksys EtherFast&reg; 10/100 5-port Auto-Sensing Hub</A> and it looks not only like that might should be my migratory pattern, but they seem cheap enough that I might actually replace some of my units, already.

Any thoughts?
R

PS) Also, please don't forget about my intercom questions; Thanks.

About your Intercom: I'm not familiar with that particular model of NuTone, but I have worked on a few of them. Most use a simple RCA Auxiliary input (obviously not stereo inputs - single, mono input.) I have worked on a few NuTones, they are pretty good budget systems. The only thing I don't like about some of them is the plastic faces, they just look cheap. Installation on them is very easy, you have 6-concuctor (shielded is highly recommended) running to all your room units, and door units, you can also connect the door chime to the push-button on the doors (pretty nice, let's you nix the doorbell - and of course you can answer the door from any room unit.) If you want to connect to a computer audio source, I would recommend using an in-wall audio connector at your source computer running back to your main unit. It will make for a cleaner installation and easy to change your sources.

If you want a really nice (read - "pricey") system, take a look at the <a href="http://www.mssystems.com/">M&S Systems</a>.

BTW, let me know before you buy anything, I can probably get you a better deal on it.

Thanks for the tip; I looked a bit at the docs for the M&S System and can already think of a couple of questions; It appears that they are bragging that they are stereo and they actually use the word stereo in some of their product names.

Back when I was contemplating the Nutone, I was actually thinking that by buying the cheapie, I might have to add-on better speakers hooked to a separate controller, but of course at an added cost. What I'd love to have, though I don't know if it is stereo would be the high-end (5000?) Nutone with the dialpad, so you could "call" different rooms. That way, my wife could try and entice me into coming-in from my workshop without the baby being the wiser, but once again, that's another story and the room units are just too expensive for my needs.

Both the Nutone and the M&S has the optional chime add-on and that is a given, because though I kind of like this antique doorbell (Maple/Chase), you can't hear it in most of the house and because the house is so odd-shaped and I'd also like to hear it in my backyard workshop; I'd need at least three chimes and then you are getting into a powerful transformer, or something.

Also, the Nutone's don't offer the door unlatching feature, so I thought that I might have to rig something up as an add-on. Right now, things are set. But we'd like to wall-in a bike alley along one side and the city says they would have no problems siteing the gas meter inside it, though I hadn't mentioned to them that I'd want to keep the gate locked.

I'll look at the info some more later, but the wife took the kid to Abq to look at a bird and do some shopping, so I'm going to spend some time this afternoon, wandering aimlessly and looking for trouble. But once I get back in front of my machine, I will certainly look more closely at the M&S info.

Peace Out;
R

Wow, that a lot to address, but I will try. I don’t know if the word “cheap” belongs in the conversation at all, unless you get lucky some place along the way. The best way to do this is to have stand alone systems with limited crossover points, to ease trouble shoothing.

I bet you are thinking “what dose a mechanic know about networks”. Good question, but when I was in school I could not decide what I wanted to do, so I got dual degrees, one in Automotive Technology and the other in Engineering Technology. But when I got out of school I ended up going with the automotive route. But, now I am looking to change jobs because I am getting board, I might go back to the engineering sector. I did not include that with my signature because I was not going to post in these forms at first, but I guess I cant help myself. To help you out on your situation I need to know some things first.

Let’s start with the networking. It’s almost a given that you are going to use CAT 5 cable. You have to consider if VoIP is something you would ever want to look into.
Are you going to leave the network equipment when you leave? Your topology depends a lot on how many nodes you wish to support. How many nodes do you think you will need total and then in each room? Will you need NAS or networked printers?


And now intercoms, what features do you have to have? What can you omit? Would you consider adding 1 true stereo speaker to each room? What is the maximum you want to spend on the total design? Do you want satellite radio capability sense you are in the radio bad lands?


PS.- If you are real nice I will CAD something up for you.

Are maintenance and power supply going to be a problem? Are the hubs in the attic, hot/cold?

When I consider labor time and wiring costs, the hub per room looks good for multiple outlets per room.

I never thought about signal loss. I keep connected only the cat5 lines that are actually in use.

How long before we all go to fiber optic?

(And to think, though I hadn't finished my homework on the next couple of issues, I figured this topic was dead, but since I really haven't progressed that far because other things have occupied my time lately; I'm more than willing to continue fleshing this out because I want the best that I can while staying within the parameters of the market)

Matt: My primary concerns are resale and appraisal value; I know that I am in this house and this part of the world for a limited time and the reality is that my wife spends a good part of her day on the net from work and my kid has just mastered opening Word and changing the fontcolors, so all of the networking is being done to set the house apart from the remainder of the market and to appeal to a certain segment of the population. After all, though I can and do use multiple computers at one time, there's really only me and I like problem-solving.

You certainly bring-up a couple of issues that has never been a question for me, but because if I leave any computers there would only be a couple at the absolute most and they would have specific purposes, not just for general use; I do have to consider how the next person might want to approach things.

Personally, I lived on NT 3.5 for a couple of years and since at least '97, I've ran NT 4, exclusively and unless I'm mistaken, every computer that I've ran on NT 4 was setup to be a server of some type, so I don't think I've ever installed it as workstation, though it is overkill in my current config. (All websites I currently host/manage are setup on leased space) Unfortunately, the only way to jettison the server components without simply shutting them off, as I have done would be to reformat and reinstall, so I've just never bothered because this would require some effort on my part and I'm basically lazy

What I've always done is simply define everything as network drives and I just go to whatever machine is hooked to the printer I want to use and print from whatever drive the document is stored. This will work for me in perpetuity. Though needless to say, I've never even researched the concept of a fileserver or a network printer. I found an answer, it works for me, but wouldn't you just plug either of these into the ethernet, or would either require something other than a regular interface?

Voice over IP is also something I've never thought much about; I rarely call anyone myself and I actually go through phases where I don't answer the phone; I did, probably back around '94 try the voice component of the old PowWow because I was doing a lot of tranatlantic work and I wanted to evolve past typed communication and save on international calls; But on a dialup which is all I had at the time, it was painful and I've never put any thought into the idea, since. I don't even know what solutions are currently available.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how either of these would effect my network configuration from a hardware standpoint; Or once again; Could you simply plug whatever device into the ethernet because I probably won't be leaving anything specific to that one task behind and since, I will be selling the place in approximately three years, lord only knows where we will be at that time technologically, anyway.

Chris: Though signal loss certainly should be considered and all efforts should be employed to reduce it; I have come to the conclusion that is probably a non-issue because if they are using the net to connect to a supercomputer, the connection is going to be lacking. And, if they want the best connection in the house, they could just use the one in the same room as the distribution closet and perhaps, plug their machine in directly. So though, I'd like to make every effort to reduce loss, I can live with whatever a normal person might accept.

I still like the idea of star-wiring, but to reduce loss I am more than willing to do as you and only connect the lines that are in use, while leaving those that aren't in place, so they can be employed at any moment. As you said somewhere on this board, either about data or voice; If I need another connection, I just go to my distribution center and plug-in a cable, taking less than thirty seconds to do it.

Basically for right now, I've got my one-story house divided in half with all of the wiring for everything leading back to a corner of the room which right now, serves as my indoor workshop because it is soundproof, but that I will turn into a library and entertainment center before I am done.

Halfway of the part that I'm currently using, I've got these built-in cabinets in a hallway and I plan on installing outlets and the wiring on the top shelf and only on the side closest to the rooms at that end. This would be wired to the distribution closet in the library and so will the rooms that are closer to the physical center of the house. Most of the other "half" is comprised of the apartment that you've no doubt heard that I will be bringing into the house, late in year two or early in year three of this project. When I get there, I will install some kind of cabinet to hold the hubs for that end, which once again, I will be wiring back to the library.

So, what I'm seeing right now are four interfaces in most rooms and each interface would be wired with two RG6 and two Cat5e. (There will be a small variation on that formula, but that's a topic for another thread) And, though there will be a hub for each room, the hubs would be installed in one of the three cabinets with everything going one additional hop to the library.

And though I haven't verified it and it is not what I've normally done, but I see no reason why I can't neaten things up by wiring an interface in the cabinets, one representing each room, labelled and color-coded. So, there would be a short cable running from the cabinet-enclosed, room-specific interface to the room or cabinet hub, which in turn would make Chris' solution easier to administer.

Any and all thoughts, suggestions, solution or theories from any quarter are certainly more than welcome. But please note, the above really only pertains to data and I'll most likely talk through the media part of the equation in another thread, because I have a few solutions and questions specific to that topic that I'd like to run by the forum and I don't want to confuse things.

Hope this makes sense;
Thanks in Advance;
R

Of course after re-reading all of the above, thinking out loud; I'm not sure exactly how I have affected the number of hops and/or the question of signal loss; So, I need to do some more calcs and some additional reading; Has anyone studied the amount of loss inflicted by an ethernet wall-plug, by chance?

Peace Out;
R

As long as you keep your hops down to no more than 90 meters, you will be fine. If you do have some really long runs of cable with lots of noise you can add a repeater or signal booster. I also think in stead of using a true star topo you will probably end up using an extended star If you were going to use VoIP the center of your start would be different, you would have to use a VoIP gateway. But sticking with your design goal of resale value I don’t think that would be a big boost. Even thought why you live there it would be nice to have VoIP back up if phone service went down, but your ISP might not even be VoIP capable. I think you also have to assume that who every buys your house will be running some version of windows. I think you could install a router/gateway and the hubs to stay with the house. So long as your router has an open port left over adding a print server would be easy for who ever buys the house. As for helping resale value I think I would make sure your intercom system has the chime included for sure and everything else is just gravy. I really don’t think selective call will make that big a difference when you go to sell the home. What I do think would be a good addition would be satellite radio. There are home kits for it that includes a receiver with RCA jacks. Add a CD player to it and you have the whole home entertainment system. You can choose if you want to wire it in to the intercom or mount one speaker in each room. But in my opinion I don’t think routing sat radio to a intercom dose it justice. Or you could ad a Motorola simplefi. It is a wireless digital auto receiver, it has a RCA jack or you could use it a stereo receiver. It would allow you to play music stored on your computer over your intercom.