Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - Floor Prep for Glue Down Installation

Hi all! I plan on gluing down Bruce's solid 5/16" Natural Reflections hardwood onto my concrete subfloor. I just pulled the carpet and padding up and noticed a long crack running down the floor. The crack doesn't appear to be any wider than 1/32" and is not deep at all - more of a surface crack, probably only 1/32" at most.

Should I be concerned about this or is this normal? Should I fill the crack with the same leveling compound as the rest of the floor?

Also, what's the best way to remove paint, primer and other junk that the builder left on the concrete? Is a floor scraper sufficient or should I use a belt sander, random orbital sander or other.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback!

Thanks for your time!

Greg,

I just installed the same floor, with the same problem to my slab.

I checked the moisture content on the crack and made sure it was consistant with the rest of the floor. It was in my case, so I just applied the leveling compound over it.

On the paint and other residue I found on the floor, I used a disk hand grinder I rented. I had it because I had a few high spots to grind down, and it worked great. I also attached a wire wheel to it, and it worked well too.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about small areas such as drips, they probably won't have any negative effect.

JT

Thanks for the response JT!

I assume then you had used a moisture meter to compare the moisture content of the crack to the rest of the floor. I don't have one and was just going to duct tape 6 mil plastic down over sections of the floor, including over the cracked part and cross my fingers that no water droplets would appear. If I did find droplets over the cracked part, then I was going fill the crack with leveling compoung, then redo the moisture test again. I wasn't sure on what to do afterwards if the moisture test failed again. Actually, I was planning on doing this today.

Thanks for the tip using on the disk hand grinder. I haven't fully pulled the carpet up yet and anticipate that I may also have some high spots to grind down.

Greg

I think you are asking for some cupping and buckling glueing down a solid hardwood to a concrete slab!!! I support glue down but would go with a 3 or 5 ply engineered product for stability. What will happen to the bond between the floor and the wood when the cracks open or closes? Is the adhesive flexible or will it break the bond between the wood and floor. I have been told that the adhesive actually pulls the wood to the floor when it dries. I would try to remove all paint etc, or the glue will just pull the paint off the floor and your planks will stick and release when you walk on them.

The only adhesive you are "allowed" to use when installing Natural Reflections is "Equalizer" use ANY other glue and kiss your warranty goodbye. Equalizer has a very elastic quality that allows for movement.

Make SURE you leave the recommended spacing around the perimeter of the room(s) for movement.

Thanks for the warning of making sure that I use the "Equalizer". I actually did end up ordering Bruce's Equalizer. Prior to my ordering, I had read Bruce's installation instructions for Natural Reflections. It obviously did say to use their Equalizer, but made no mention that it was mandatory, especially for warranty purposes. You would think that they would be more explicit.

That's interesting about the adhesive being elastic. I did not know that, but now that you've mentioned it, it does make sense.

Thanks all for your replies to this!

is this slab at or below grade?That has alot to do with wether this is going to accept glue down or not if below grade the recommended way of install is 2x10/12 sleepers shot to the floor then the ply wood 3/8 cdx not osb then it is suitable for below grade instll anythind else you're begging for failure:cool:

I will be installing the Natural Reflections on grade in the DFW area. I've already did the moisture patch test as well as with a moisture meter and all checked out ok.

Greg,

I posted here before installing my floors, and had the naysayers tell me it wouldnt work. I made sure I used the adhesive recommended, and its great.

One thing, When you finish up for the day, get the equalizer adhesive off of the floor. Its a real bummer if it dries on the wood surface. Actually, I waited until the folloing day to remove it, and it was fine. A dry clean rag works if you do it the same day, or I used mineral spirits on the days after.

One thing to check as you lay the floor, check the surface of the boards for knots and splits. I found two boards after installation that I missed that had defects.

If I had it to do over, I would rub a soft rag over the grain and see if it catches. Not that big of a deal though.

The nice thing about reflections is that it can be refinised more than laminates.

I would use reflections again, knowing what I know now. Great floor with a great finish.

JT

Thanks for the advice JT! Being able to refinish the Reflections, if need be, as well being rated as "Best" grade by Bruce were what sold me. I was reluctant to purchase Bruce with all the negative feedback that I've read in some of these forums, but I went ahead anyway. It's encouraging to hear others that are happy with this Bruce product!

greg and JT,
it is good to hear that you both have decided to lay solid wood. i live in houston and have also posted before and have had evcerbody against laying hardwood on slab. My slab is on ground and i have been debating for 3 weeks about solid vs engineered. i know i will need to get moisture reading on slab first, but want to be sure that i can lay solid wood in houston without concerns of warping board. anybody hear of parchem millenium 4002 moisture cured urethane? i heard this provideds a great moisture barrier and warranties against failure?
mark

I would look into Taylor 2071... This is a great add. I have put 3/4 in solid on concrete with this add..
Thomas

Thomas! Where did you come from? You forgot to stear me in the direction of the Taylor folks in Vegas, but we were all busy. All I can say is the most common failures with gluedowns would be..

--Wrong adhesive
--Not enough applied
--slab moisture problems
--not correcting high and low areas.

There are several good ones out there and another would be Bostiks Best. Frankly I'd never go near a Bruce adhesive again because of their Tribond nightmare five years ago...but that's my opinion.

----"Hardwood Guy Moderator STILL Out Of Town"

http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodinstaller/default.htm

Testing Images:

If this works this is something you never want to do. I was in San Diego three weeks ago and this wood floor installer thought the concrete slab needed an additional moisture barrier so he SEALED it. Big NO-NO! Why he did this is beyond me as the slab actually(existing 15 years) sat on a rise and would not possibly have any moisture problems.

Easily a $15,000 failure waiting to happen...insufficient bonding capability. You'll need to click the link to view the image.

http://www.fgamble.com/images/fcif_uploaded/12203205851.jpg

I'm going to glue BR-111 7/16" Industparquet to my slab in a few weeks. I was planning on skipping moister tests and simply glueing a 6mil barrier down first, then glueing the wood down. Is this reasonable? Or should I test and if negative, go straight to concrete?

BTW, I'm on a 20+ year old slab in southern California. The slab is on grade with a small portion of the floor being against an exterior wall.

Thanks,
Dan

Dan:

Never done it. The better adhesives provide the moisture barrier providing you use the proper amount and spread rate.

Ken Fisher
www.hardwoodinstaller.com

Dan---
Taylor 2071 is a cross linking add that is great!!!
Sorry about that Ken:( but I meet the pres. and we are going to link up!!!!
We are talking about using there add. in the training center...
Thomas

Thanks for your replies. I've already put quite a bit of $$ into three buckets of Bostik's Best. It sounds like Taylor 2071 is pretty much the same. Of course I won't hold you to any advice given over the internet to someone you haven't met for a location that you've never been to, but how much moister protection can I expect from my Bostik? If I put a square of plastic down and get no moister, should the glue be sufficient?

(BTW, Jeff, I am thoroughly enjoying your web site!)

Thanks a million,
Dan