Designing Kitchens and Bathrooms - bathroom redo- help!

Hello we tried to do it the "cheap way" and repainted our blue tub white ourselves, what a bad idea?? Maybe we should have waited the 24 drying time before painting it but it didn't cover right and now it has dots all over it like a certs with flavor crystals!! Anyway, we've decided that we might get a new tub and surround from HD and my question is.. can we put that surround over the old tile or do we have to remove the tile and the tub first? Also, the rest of the bathroom has tile 3/4 way up and we want to cover the pink tiles up - could we leave the tile and just liquid nail wainscoting or something over it or do we need to rip out and redrywall all that first and then paint it or whatever?? We are really new to this and I just wanted to get some ideas before we even think of attempting this. Ideas anyone?? thanks!:(

mimi23,

Sorry to hear about the tub. Since you are replacing the tub and will have to remove the old tile as well as the substrate. Your old tub will be fastened to the wall studs with nails or screws that are on the tub flange. These have to be removed before the tub (the new enclosure with your new tub will not fit properly as well as if it is a paneled surround, applying adhesive to tiles will not work. I strongly recommend removal, it may be best to totally remove everything within your bathroom and start over OR just remove the drywall/tile up to the top of the existing tile. With it being 3/4 up the wall, it might be better doing it all over. Again, I stress that if this is plaster and not drywall, you may want to leave at least 1 foot of it alone from the ceiling down to make it easier for drywall application and taping.

Yes, you could apply adhesive to your wainscoating but in a bathroom, I have seen this fail over time. Trying to nail through wainscoating and tile is not going to happen. This is another reason to remove the existing wall covering. The other issue is how it will look and how you will finish the edges. The thickness will be the problem, like at the door/window casing. Possibly the space behind the toilet.

Again, remove all and reinstall M/R drywall after installing the new tub/enclosure.

Hope this helps!

Now let me guess--- how old is your house????????
A blue tub and pink tile wainscoating in the entire bathroom.
Sort of dates this as older.

Is the tile much thicker than the rest of the wall?? Or is it only 1/4" thicker (the thickness of the tile).

If you have an older home with mud set wall tile, riping it out is going to be a *****.(sorry about that) it is going to be a lot of hard work.

Hire a plumber to replace your old tub--- he will have to take out maybe a foot of wall around the tub to do this. While you are at it how about replacing the faucet on the tub.

Before I go any further let me know "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say.

Tile over tile might be the answer.

mimi23,

The suggestion by WJS_SR51 about tiling over tile is not advisable. The main issues are the plumbing and the distance it will protrude out from wall. More times than not in an older home where the pipes are galvanized, the pipes have been set so tight and the wood blocking that was normally done to anchor the pipes may not be moveable nor easily accessible to allow movement forward. If this was changed to a new faucet assembly, again if nothing else was done, the inability to put the handles and spout on may be the result.

If new faucet assembly is desired, then full access to the wall will be necessary to change out existing faucet assembly and showerhead piping to copper.

This was not suggested before due to these reasons and when I make a suggestion, it is done by first "THINKING AHEAD" not behind.

With a new tub and surround it will require removal of the walls and not just the foot above the tub as suggested. These are to be installed with the tub attached to the studs, then apply Durock as the backer, NOT GREENBOARD even though people will do this but if the backer gets wet due to any moisture, it won't get ruined. Follow the manufacturers installation instructions. Application is as I described above.

If you apply tile over tile, and I don't recommend this but again you have to look at everything first. If you need a new tub/surround - why consider it? If the applying another layer of tile over the old and it is not as solid as it should be, you're taking a chance on problems down the line. You already have made mistakes that are costing you time and money, you might as well do it right the first time and get the desired results without worry. As Moderator, we strive to give our members the best advise that SAVES you MONEY yet do it the right way.

Tile can be laid over existing tile with some qualifications. 1. The existing tile must be very solidly anchored to the substrate. (If tiles are loose or areas behind have gotten wet, this may be a problem) 2. The tile must be very clean. 3. A high quality thin-set should be used. Not just a latex added thin-set but a high quality one like Mapei's Keralastic/Kerabond system. (This is one of the only types of thin-set that is rated and guaranteed for tile on tile applications) 4. Scarifying the tile will have to be done.

As WJS_SR51 said, This is the rest of the story but the "right one"!

To Doug A and Mimi23:
First I'd really like to establish if Mimi23 has an older mudset tile job, not only around the tub but also the wainscoating.

If she has drywall- by all means tear the darn stuff out and start over,but in my humble opinion, IF this an old mud job with no cracks in it. It would be a better base to tile over than concrete board.
If the plumber has to remove the entire pipe wall to install new fixtures---- that's only one wall--- about 3 feet max. compared to the entire bathroom.

It is easy enough to hang wire lath and remud the foot or so on the other 2 walls in order to replace the tub even if they have to use concrete board on the pipe wall.Even if they have to hire a stucco/plaster man to fill it in it is cheaper than ripping it all back to the studs.

Sorry I'm not as up to date as I could be but the 2001 Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installation from TCA , page 37 covers renovation with tile over tile.
I don't think TCA would go there if it wouldn't work.

I respect Doug A 's right to his opinion and he is a moderator for this board. I'm not.

thanks for the replies everyone! I have no idea how to tell if we have mudset tile or what?? Our house is approximately 50 years old or a little less. We have decided to go with the new tub and surround that attaches to it since retiling is not my idea of fun since we've never attempted it before. I was just not sure if we needed to install rerock or drywall behind the new surround since you said that the tub attaches right to the studs. Does the surround attach to the studs as well? or do we need drywall first? We will probably rip out all the other tile in the bath and just redrywall or greenboard and then wallpaper or paint it instead of retiling it or using wainscoting since some have said that was a bad idea to use it. The floor has old tile so I was thinking of just getting some linoleum floor tiles and just sticking them on top of the tile since I am too scared of attempting retiling a bath since I've never done it before. Should we use greenboard or what for the walls that are just getting wallpaper or paint? Also, we are thinking of redoing the ceiling with greenboard or something since it's looking like water has caused cracks over time from splashing maybe? and since we will need to install a different size fan and will have to cut a new hole in it.

My best guess in a 50 year old house is a cast iron tub and mud set tile and plaster walls. If you bang on the tub and it sounds like a rock- it's cast iron. If it sounds like tin it is not.

Usually in that time period, mudset tile is set 1/2" to 3/4 " thicker than the rest of the wall.
Where the wainscoating stops and the rest of the wall starts is the tile much thicker???

It might be worth your $ to have a local remodeling contractor give you an opinion. It kind of sounds like you are getting in over your heads. But that is only my opinion.