Gas and Oil Home Heating Furnaces - House slow to come up to temp
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Brewbeer
12-05-02, 08:53 AM
Hi Folks,
In June I bought a 1950s-era, 5-room, 1,000 sq.ft. ranch in western Mass, w/ unfinished basement. It's heated by a new Utica USB-4 natural gas boiler, which just replaced the original 1950s American Standard Arcoliner oil boiler.
The piping from the boiler is one continuous loop with restrictor "Tees" coming off it that go to each radiator, such that individual radiators can be turned off without cutting the flow of water to any of the other radiators (the radiators are all ?piped in parallel?). I've got a Taco model 007 circulator. The radiators in the house are cast iron baseboard, installed when the house was first built. There are about 40 or 50 feet total of radiators inside the house. All the radiators feel like they get up to equal temperature at the same rate.
The boiler is rated 100K BTU input and 87K net output. I know that it is probably oversized for my house, but the plan is to put a large addition on the house in a few years, almost doubling the size of the place.
I've got a programmable thermostat, which I set at 60 at night & during the day, and 68 in the morning & evening.
There is some minimal insulation in the walls, and between 6 and 9 inches in the ceiling. The windows are wooden double-hung with combination storms.
The house is VERY slow to come up to temperature. To go from 60 to 68 degrees on a cold morning (15 F) takes at least two hours. The boiler comes up to its high limit (about 190) and cycles on and off every couple of minutes (the circulator keeps running). The temp gage on the boiler only drops about 5 degrees between cycling on and off. I never noticed this with the old oil boiler, because I kept the heat high and constant in order to run-out the oil from the oil tank prior to converting to gas. I'm thinking that I don't have enough radiators installed in the house to quickly transfer the heat from the boiler to the air in the house.
My questions:
1) Will the constant cycling result in early failure of the boiler controls or parts (like the gas valve or hot surface igniter)? Will reduced cycling prolong the life of these parts?
2) If reduced cycling will prolong service life of components, can the boiler be adjusted so that the controller will allow the temp to drop more than 5 degrees between burner cycling? If so, how would this be accomplished?
3) Would a circulator with a higher flow rate improve my situation?
4) Is it possible to add radiant floor heating under my existing floors (hardwood and tile) from below in the cellar? Would this improve my recovery time inside the house? If yes, could the installation of the radiant floor piping be a DIY project, with the plumber coming out to hook it up to the boiler?
5) Would additional sealing/insulation in the attic help substantially shorten my recovery times?
My previous house was also a 1,000 sq.ft. ranch, built in 1968, with a much smaller boiler (41K BTU net), with aluminum finned radiators (about 60 feet total, in two zones, each zone having its radiators in series), and it would recover 10 degrees in under an hour. But that house also had better insulation (I converted it from electric heat when I got it).
Please let me know if I need to provide more info. Thankx to all.
In June I bought a 1950s-era, 5-room, 1,000 sq.ft. ranch in western Mass, w/ unfinished basement. It's heated by a new Utica USB-4 natural gas boiler, which just replaced the original 1950s American Standard Arcoliner oil boiler.
The piping from the boiler is one continuous loop with restrictor "Tees" coming off it that go to each radiator, such that individual radiators can be turned off without cutting the flow of water to any of the other radiators (the radiators are all ?piped in parallel?). I've got a Taco model 007 circulator. The radiators in the house are cast iron baseboard, installed when the house was first built. There are about 40 or 50 feet total of radiators inside the house. All the radiators feel like they get up to equal temperature at the same rate.
The boiler is rated 100K BTU input and 87K net output. I know that it is probably oversized for my house, but the plan is to put a large addition on the house in a few years, almost doubling the size of the place.
I've got a programmable thermostat, which I set at 60 at night & during the day, and 68 in the morning & evening.
There is some minimal insulation in the walls, and between 6 and 9 inches in the ceiling. The windows are wooden double-hung with combination storms.
The house is VERY slow to come up to temperature. To go from 60 to 68 degrees on a cold morning (15 F) takes at least two hours. The boiler comes up to its high limit (about 190) and cycles on and off every couple of minutes (the circulator keeps running). The temp gage on the boiler only drops about 5 degrees between cycling on and off. I never noticed this with the old oil boiler, because I kept the heat high and constant in order to run-out the oil from the oil tank prior to converting to gas. I'm thinking that I don't have enough radiators installed in the house to quickly transfer the heat from the boiler to the air in the house.
My questions:
1) Will the constant cycling result in early failure of the boiler controls or parts (like the gas valve or hot surface igniter)? Will reduced cycling prolong the life of these parts?
2) If reduced cycling will prolong service life of components, can the boiler be adjusted so that the controller will allow the temp to drop more than 5 degrees between burner cycling? If so, how would this be accomplished?
3) Would a circulator with a higher flow rate improve my situation?
4) Is it possible to add radiant floor heating under my existing floors (hardwood and tile) from below in the cellar? Would this improve my recovery time inside the house? If yes, could the installation of the radiant floor piping be a DIY project, with the plumber coming out to hook it up to the boiler?
5) Would additional sealing/insulation in the attic help substantially shorten my recovery times?
My previous house was also a 1,000 sq.ft. ranch, built in 1968, with a much smaller boiler (41K BTU net), with aluminum finned radiators (about 60 feet total, in two zones, each zone having its radiators in series), and it would recover 10 degrees in under an hour. But that house also had better insulation (I converted it from electric heat when I got it).
Please let me know if I need to provide more info. Thankx to all.
Ed Imeduc
12-05-02, 12:40 PM
I would leave the t-stat set where you like the temp. Not up an down all ther time. Hot water is slow on the pick up and also will give you a over run on temp most of the time.You had copper base before and that will give you a faster pick up over the cast iron ones you have now. Have you looked under them and see if they are clean, that the air can get through them. Had one home boiler ran fine got no heat in the rooms. It was just lint under the finns on the baseboard Yes insulation would help in the ceiling we use a R 30.
Radiant heat for the upstairs floor ,in the basement NO NO N O
You might want to try and look at www. heatinghelp.com they are in to boiler more ;) ED
Radiant heat for the upstairs floor ,in the basement NO NO N O
You might want to try and look at www. heatinghelp.com they are in to boiler more ;) ED
GregH
12-05-02, 04:47 PM
Brewbeer:
Ed is correct in that baseboards are very slow to come back.
To answer your questions;
1 & 2 - Short cycling is hard on equipment. If you check out this recent thread there is a lengthy discussion on this.
http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?threadid=114051
3- If you check the in and out temperature of the water you could tell if increased flow will help. A large temp difference would show that more flow would help. Low TD, it wouldn't help.
4 - The quickest recovery is obtained with larger surface areas, whether this is with more efficient rads or more total rads.
After checking for plugged fins and possible corrosion build-up in piping, fan forced rads could be an option.
Attic insulation and other energy saving solutions are usually good value for the money. R-40 or 12" of FG are the minimum used here.
Ed is correct in that baseboards are very slow to come back.
To answer your questions;
1 & 2 - Short cycling is hard on equipment. If you check out this recent thread there is a lengthy discussion on this.
http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?threadid=114051
3- If you check the in and out temperature of the water you could tell if increased flow will help. A large temp difference would show that more flow would help. Low TD, it wouldn't help.
4 - The quickest recovery is obtained with larger surface areas, whether this is with more efficient rads or more total rads.
After checking for plugged fins and possible corrosion build-up in piping, fan forced rads could be an option.
Attic insulation and other energy saving solutions are usually good value for the money. R-40 or 12" of FG are the minimum used here.