Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - Deck Refinishing

I have noticed that much of the advice given regarding deck cleaning and finishing products directs people away from Home Depot/Lowe's and the products they offer. Interestingly, the advice is almost without fail, from a contractor's perspective. This is doityourself.com, right? I may be in the minority (I doubt it though), but I spend time at Home Depot just about every weekend, and after getting used to the sheer enormity of the place, I can now find anything I need and am generally happy with the products I purchase there. Most recently, I bought and used Behr's Deck Finish Remover and their Wood Brightener. Both products worked very well, no need for sanding or pressure washing. The sales guy at Home Depot suggested Behr's Deck Plus Semi-Transparent Stain for my deck, I picked from something like 80 colors. It is an alkyd/acrylic product (he said it delivers both oil and water benefits). The stain looks very nice and has held up very well so far. While I agree that some of the products that Home Depot and Lowe's sells, namely Thompson's, are sub-par, I have for the most part been able to find good brands at lower prices, and I was able to pick up screws, lightbulbs, plants, and a cordless drill.

Just a thought that your audience frequents Home Depot, so why not offer assistance where we shop? Is it not a good place for contractors?

swaniedog,

Hey, I'll trade Lowes bills with you anytime. But when it comes to QUALITY paints, etc., you're better off at a good paint store.
Can't remember, does the Behr wood brightener contain sodium hypochlorite(bleach)?? If it does, check out this picture:

http://community.sierra.com/WebX?233@74.3QfUbEIbpDD.4@.ef5edb2/11!enclosure=.ef97708

When your Behr acrylic starts peeling, come back and we'll help you strip it off. But it won't be fun at all.

fred

PS - contractor's can get a better deal at other places.

swaniedog,

As a new member to the forum...welcome! Your comments are intriguing but you better read past postings, Home Depot and Lowes are mentioned alot! We don't directly promote advertising to these stores but when they are mentioned, they are usually within the DIY backyard. If you noticed, most replies to postings are from other do-it-yourselfer's offering their own experiences. On occassion, the moderator will provide their own experiences and/or factual information/reference material to enhance the subject matter. If help is requested, we offer private e-mails and provide it to benefit the homeowner and make their project a successful one.

Home Depot, Lowes, etc. does not always supply products that are referenced to within the forum and even though you and many others shop at these stores, they may not carry the brands mentioned by others. At times and depending on where you live, advice given there may not be as reliable nor may it be readily given and sometimes, not knowing the right question provides the wrong answers.

As a moderator, it is fascinating to read postings and see that not always is there just one way to do something or to use just a specific product to achieve the same goals.

As a Residential Building Designer, with experience as a general contractor and many years in construction/property management, these stores do not always provide the services and products that a GOOD contractor desires. I will admit, that I stop there on many occassions but for me, it will not replace the major lumber yards that offer much more and yes, you pay more but the services offered and ability to acquire what I want..FAST is paramount. The intent of HD, Lowes, etc. was and is to cater to the homeowner, and let's face it...they are quite good at it! Prices are reasonable, they offer NAME BRAND PRODUCTS but most product line offered in the stores is medium-high medium quality but it is what the homeowner is after that counts. Good prices doesn't mean a great product but getting a great product doesn't have to cost either.

When it comes right down to it, shop where you want, can't understand something or want to know how to do it...get the best advice you can and succeed in your endeavor!

Again..thanks for the comments and join in!

Fred,

The Behr Wood Cleaner & Conditioner is an oxalic acid based product, and it made my deck look like new again. They do have a bleach-based product for cleaning and mildew removal, but it is to be used in conjunction with the brightener. Is there a better way to kill mildew than bleach?

The semi-transparent stain I used is not solely an acrylic but an "alkyd/acrylic" blend. As I said, its holding up great, I found a color that coordinates with my siding and trim, and it was easy to clean up after and seems to be retaining it's color beter than the oil-based products I have used in the past. Lapping was the only challenge, but easily solved by staining board lengths end to end.


Doug,

Thank you for your reply. Your perspective from both a moderator's and professional's point-of-view is both interesting and informative. Thank you for making me feel welcome here! I don't mean to be a Home Depot "homer," but that is where I do most of my home improvement shopping, and I often come here looking for the best products to use WITHIN that arena.

Thanks again.

swaniedog,

Oxalic acid is a real good cleaner/brightener, even more so and preferred for cedar and redwood.
Mildew and algae can also be killed with oxygenated bleach. I use the Wolman Deck/Fence brightener (sodium percarbonate).
In conjuction with my pressure washer I can remove 5 to 10 years of mildew/algae build-up. The runoff is basically harmless.

I hope your Behr finish holds up a few years, especially on the horizontal surfaces. I generally don't recommend any film base finish for any outdoor wood structure. Water will be absorbed into the wood by wicking and from underneath and will cause film base finishes to first bubble, then peel.

Even the best penetrating oil base finishes are only rated for three and maybe a fourth year by Consumer Reports.
good luck,
fred

First off,
I would never ever suggest Behr as a product of choice. Surf the web. They lost a class action suit for having a defective mildew inhibitor in their product.

Try:
Cabot
Sikkens
Wolman
Men-Wood

To clean the deck it will depend on if there is an existing finish there hat needs to be removed or not. If not, you are lucky. Clean with a percarbonate based cleaner and brighten with either citric or oxalic acid, citric being the more forgiving one to work with.

If you have a stain on the deck (existing finish ssuch as Behr or other) then call in a pro. The caustic chemicals used to properly strip a deck are not available in stores to consumers and can be very hazardous.

If you need to find a pro in your area, give me a shout. I'm always happy to help.

Beth :)

Beth,

I just "surfed the web," thanks for the tip...in reading up on the Behr lawsuit...it seems that they settled a class action complaint on a linseed oil based product that they no longer manufacture. The suit originated in the state of Washington. No mildew there...my god, it never stops raining. If I were a stain company that made linseed oil products, I'd be a little nervous right now. Linseed oil is food for mildew. Mildewcide protects the dry film.

Thanks alot for you unbiased response...yea right. What a suprise that SeeDirtRun happens to offer only the products you recommend. Maybe your company can BUY some ad space on the internet instead of invading community forums.

Besides...
Cabot, a good brand, is not readily available on the West Coast.
Sikkens is overpriced and overrated.
Wolman F&P isn't bad, but their Extreme product is garbage
Men-Wood? who cares...

I used a Behr Deck Finish Remover (NO. 64), and it worked great. Didn't have to call an overpriced cleaning/refinishing company.

You know,
I am sorry I wasted my time trying to help you out. OF COURSE we have products on our web site that we use on our own client's decks, fences, etc. We have found them to work well, at least here on the East Coast in the Mid-Atlantic area. We will apply other products as requested by the consumer, but overall have found these are the most popular in our area.

Beth

You didn't waste your time trying to HELP me out....you wasted your time trying to advertise your business to me....

An $89.00 special for a 200 square foot deck?

First off, Home Depot and Lowe's sell pressure washers for about $140. So, for the cost of two of your "specials" someone could have their own pressure washer and a year supply of cleaning products.

Oh, and your coupon is expired...

If you are going to advertise & promote your services and "certified" products, and provide disparaging remarks about others in an open forum, that same forum has the right to critique you.

If you don't want feedback, buy an ad.

We advertise plenty. But we don't serve the west coast. And I'm not advertising here. Like others I have come online as a professional to help someone out. I wasn't trying to sell you anything. We don't sell products to consumers. We sell services to consumers.

As for the coupon, well, coupons do tend to have expiration dates.

Good luck with all of your home projects.

Beth

ok
lets say you have a new deck
you stain it with an oil based stain
all you need to do is each year is to ''oil'' it.
i use motor oil thinned with paint thinner.
3 parts thinner to one part oil
buy motor oil on sale by the case, "yellow oil"
use a two gallon pump sprayer
you might have to restain it depending on the sun
it works great and is so much cheaper than ''normal'' products.
i also use this method on outdoor furniture as well.
just determine when the best time is to do this for your climate.
sunny/harsh sun, i do it in the summer, just after the rain.
harsh winters, just before the snow,
you need a couple to three days of sun to be sure your
wood is dry before applying.

Interesting leewaytoo.

But not exactly high tech! I suppose the motor oil will give some water protection to the wood.
There are basically two reasons for staining a deck, 1)protection, and 2) aesthetics. And, let's face it, above ground PT lumber will last 25 to 30 yrs without any protection at all(ceppin' the three main colors will be grey(uv), black(mildew), and green(algae).
Thus, aesthetics is the main reason for staining a deck.
The aforementioned 'quality' deck stains contain tiny oxide particles to inhibit the suns uv rays, and some have mildew retardants. And these stains will last three to maybe four years.
fred

Do you get stain stripes on your light colored Dockers after sittin' on your o/d furniture?

So the enviromentalists are worried about me spilling some oil when I am servicing my vehicle, and this guy is spraying it all over? HMMMM. You do know that it has been shown that motor oil causes cancer in the state of California. LOL

been there and done that , with the new water based deck stains , in the upper mi. areas , it just dont work , 1 winter will make these stains bubble and peal , when the early spring sun starts to dry these darn decks off , always did these things in oil base , up tell the time i sent wife to get stains for a job , the doit center some how covinced her that water base was a thing of the new times ,no smell and easy cleanups , since i was'nt the one who was going to paint this i let her go at it , lol , well got news for them it is a mess , no real good way to back up from this ordeal , just have to wait for it all to losen up and then scrape and reseal it back to a oil base again , power washer is not a option , from what i have heard it just drives to much water into the wood and when the sun hits it it cracks , swells , and detroyes the wood fibers , maybe i'm wrong , but never use this water base paint on anything that is outside and you walk on it ,

ALMOST,
I agree...........
Any solid color stain/paint whether waterbase(acrylic) or for that matter, any film forming finish is destined for disaster. Wood absorbs water and the 'films' will bubble, crack and peel.
I sometimes defer these messy jobs to my competitor - he has to work for a living. I'm part-time to support my Golf habit.

" from what i have heard it just drives to much water into the wood and when the sun hits it it cracks , swells , and detroyes the wood fibers"
Pressure washing is great if it is done correctly, too much pressure can damage the surface of the wood.

fred
Deck-Kleen Powerwashing

so it is ok to power wash decks , if the pressure is'nt to strong , good news , been wondering about this , read it somewhere that it was a no go on the power wash , don't have the place i read it , but power washing sounds good to me , i fill bad about the one my wife did and would like to take that alful stuff off and get the lady back to a oil base sealer , it looked so much better whan we did the job befor with the oil base and had a job every couple of years doing the job , right now we have just been touching it up every year where it had bubbled up and , keep saying it sure needs to be removed and done right , thanks for the info , and how about the p.s.i. what would you would do the job with,with out doing damage , thanks

ALMOST,
Normally I use a pressure from 1000 up to a possible 2000psi - depends on the amount of algae/mildew, etc. From experience and knowing how old the wood is sometimes determines pressure. Older wood gets softer and you need to be careful.
I've only ever damaged one deck board - my 40 degree nozzle clogged and water shot out like a rifle. This was one of the older decks and the homeowner had already replaced a few boards. I volunteered to fix it, but he said he would take care of it.
PW is basically the same as sanding, it removes the very outer layer of old dead cells that have greyed from uv radiation. Sometimes raised grain or 'fuzzies' develop, but these are easily removed after drying with a once over with 80 grit papar. Actually, a heavy leather glove will remedy most fuzzies.
If you've got a latex or acrylic solid film-forming finish to remove it will probably take some sodium hydroxide and pw or scrubbing to remove it. Take heed of the warning label on SH - it is lye.
fred

thanks for the info on the power wash , will give it a try maybe in the spring , about the railings and stiles , the bubbling has'nt got to them yet , just on the tops of these rails , will the power washer strip the stiles as well , thanks

The horizontal surfaces are always the first to show any weathering. Vertical posts, balusters, etc. will usually hold up more than two times longer than the deck or railtops.
It will take a combination of stripper(SH) and the pressure washing to remove a film type finish. And the newer acrylics are the toughest. Wolmans A&L is pretty good, but it still may take some scrubbing with a brush.
fred

the point to using motor oil thinned, is that you never have to strip the deck. only add pigmented stain when faded. the wood never needs to be pressure washed. you can even pigment the motor oil prior to adding the thinner. and as to the comment regarding ''spraying oil all over''. i bet your car drops more oil ''all over'' more so than my spraying with a pump sprayer onto the wood, not the soil. is not one of the reasons for preserving one's deck is to avoid having to replace it, thus using up more of the trees/gas/diesel/ and all the other resources used in getting the wood to your home? what does ''high tech'' have to do with anything. simple is best sometimes. if you wish to strip pressure wash and bleach and sand your deck every 3-5 years, go for it. i havent had to do anything other than oil my deck, and its been sevens years.
and as to ''stripes'' only a silly person would sit on outdoor furniture without being sure it is clean. if you let the oiled furniture sit in the sun for a few days before use its just fine.
the water beeds up all winter. are you not familiar with water and oil not mixing? i can buy a case of oil for 59 cents a quart. what does it cost you for your ''high tech'' finishes??
what does it cost you in elbow grease?

Neither Home Depot (most guilty) nor Lowes (less guilty, but fewer 3rd-party brand names to defend) stand behind the 3rd-party products they sell. It's not even worth discussing. And yes, Behr's exterior paint products do not perform well vs. other paints such as Evermore. I've switched from Behr's to them based on peeling after only 1 year of their exterior latext flat and semi-gloss. It's not the wood, or the prep, either. It's either their product not performing to their claims, or it's the supplier, HD and Lowes, selling defective product of theirs (e.g. - left out in the yard during the winter).