Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - Seam in concrete
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Shakuhachi
11-16-02, 01:18 PM
Just added a patio room. the floore consists of an old sidewalk that was already there and the new concrete. The flooring guys talk of some kiind of barrior material that will discourage movement or cracking at that seam. One guy is sckeptical and the other is optimistc. If I spend $1500 on some nice tile will I regret it due to this floor situation?
chfite
11-16-02, 06:02 PM
It might be interesting to see if the optimistic guy will warranty the job.
If the floor is not monolithic, it seems that there will always be a chance that the two different pours may move independently.
If the floor is not monolithic, it seems that there will always be a chance that the two different pours may move independently.
Doug Aleshire
11-17-02, 07:37 AM
Shakuhachi,
I know of no product that would prevent movement between concrete slabs. If they was, it would be great. I first would inquire to the name of this product, who sells it and does it really work? If there was such a product, we'd have more pleased homeowners who have cracked garage slabs!
How was the new slab attached or is just floating? Does it have a frost footing? I know that the sidewalk would not, at least it usually doesn't but if you have to deal with frost, then a problem would exist. Thought of any alternatives to finish flooring, like carpet? I rather do this and use the rest of the $1500 for soemthing else.
Usually some predrilling and installing rebar would discourage movement but even then, a crack could appear and any movement would defintely destroy an ceramic tile application.
Hope this helps!
I know of no product that would prevent movement between concrete slabs. If they was, it would be great. I first would inquire to the name of this product, who sells it and does it really work? If there was such a product, we'd have more pleased homeowners who have cracked garage slabs!
How was the new slab attached or is just floating? Does it have a frost footing? I know that the sidewalk would not, at least it usually doesn't but if you have to deal with frost, then a problem would exist. Thought of any alternatives to finish flooring, like carpet? I rather do this and use the rest of the $1500 for soemthing else.
Usually some predrilling and installing rebar would discourage movement but even then, a crack could appear and any movement would defintely destroy an ceramic tile application.
Hope this helps!
Shakuhachi
11-18-02, 07:30 AM
Just floating. Probably no frost barriar. Never heard of it. Wife doesn't want carpet. Nuff said there.
I thought if the tile was layed so that the edge of the tile is at the seam then if there is cracking it would only be in the grout and perhaps we could find a flexible grout.
Appreciate your help.
I thought if the tile was layed so that the edge of the tile is at the seam then if there is cracking it would only be in the grout and perhaps we could find a flexible grout.
Appreciate your help.
Doug Aleshire
11-18-02, 09:54 AM
Shakuhachi,
Don't they call flexible grout....caulk?
Was wondering, this new patio room, how much of a step down is there? I assume that you already have the exterior walls up?
Not knowing what you may have done for doors at this point, is the following ideas be applicable to your project?.....
Would it be possible for your to apply sleepers, with rigid insulation, 3/4" T & G plywood subfloor, then Durock backer with thin set applied tiles? Would this be OK with the you and the Mrs.?
My thought is, the insulation would provide some warmth, however minimal. The wood framing system, using W/T 2x6 on flat attached to concrete with Rawl anchors as a nailing backer for your sleeper rim, if you will. Hold back the 2x6 stock 1 1/2" for the new sleeper rim. Then you could install your sleepers accordingly with minimal or no movement. With the wood frame as a large platform, any movement would cause all of it to move.
Second thought is similar to the above but you could create a floor joist system, attaching the new joists, ply, etc. to the framing members of your patio room or place a ledger on your walls and then use joist hangers to suspend your floor. Granted, any doors would have to be relocated up but if you have the room, use rigid insulation, poly and apply this idea. Again, I don't know what you have for height now from slab to existing home level or the room size but this may be the better option all around.
Let me know what you think!
Don't they call flexible grout....caulk?
Was wondering, this new patio room, how much of a step down is there? I assume that you already have the exterior walls up?
Not knowing what you may have done for doors at this point, is the following ideas be applicable to your project?.....
Would it be possible for your to apply sleepers, with rigid insulation, 3/4" T & G plywood subfloor, then Durock backer with thin set applied tiles? Would this be OK with the you and the Mrs.?
My thought is, the insulation would provide some warmth, however minimal. The wood framing system, using W/T 2x6 on flat attached to concrete with Rawl anchors as a nailing backer for your sleeper rim, if you will. Hold back the 2x6 stock 1 1/2" for the new sleeper rim. Then you could install your sleepers accordingly with minimal or no movement. With the wood frame as a large platform, any movement would cause all of it to move.
Second thought is similar to the above but you could create a floor joist system, attaching the new joists, ply, etc. to the framing members of your patio room or place a ledger on your walls and then use joist hangers to suspend your floor. Granted, any doors would have to be relocated up but if you have the room, use rigid insulation, poly and apply this idea. Again, I don't know what you have for height now from slab to existing home level or the room size but this may be the better option all around.
Let me know what you think!
Shakuhachi
11-20-02, 08:21 AM
I really appreciate your thinking, Doug. At presetn the room ids on the same level as the house. A small step up would be needed. That shouldn't be a problem. The room is 13x14. I've got some thinking to do.
Bruce H
11-22-02, 10:59 AM
Doug's idea of putting a new floor on sleepers is by far the best.
If you really want to install ceramic directly to the concrete, then you have to put a grout joint directly over the joint in the concrete and then caulk that joint in the ceramic with silicone. If you just tile over the concrete joint, I can almost gaurantee a crack in the tile. Hopefully, the contractor doweled the new concrete to the existing concrete so the new slab doesn't settle and leave a difference in elevation.
Bruce
If you really want to install ceramic directly to the concrete, then you have to put a grout joint directly over the joint in the concrete and then caulk that joint in the ceramic with silicone. If you just tile over the concrete joint, I can almost gaurantee a crack in the tile. Hopefully, the contractor doweled the new concrete to the existing concrete so the new slab doesn't settle and leave a difference in elevation.
Bruce