Home Automation - One Cat 5 Cable With Phone and Data jacks

I have read much about cat 5 wiring for phone and data but am confused about one thing. I have already ran one cat 5 cable to each room (4 wire pairs in this cable). The question is at the outlet in the room, how do I wire it so one pair in the cat 5 cable is used for phone, another pair is used for data? I plan to use modular jacks as you have on your website. All wiring diagrams I find show all 4 pair being wired to one jack. I would have to split a pair out and wire it to the second jack. The way all these diagrams show all 4 pairs going to one jack, only one pair is really being used. For phone and data, I would have to run 2 cables, one for data and one for phone, but this seems like a waste. Why have 4 pair if only one pair is actually used? I want to understand how this works before I buy the wrong jacks/equipment.
Thanks for any help.

You may be able to use the brown pair for the phone lines, and the other 3 pairs for the data. Doing so you reduce your cat5 to cat3, which is speed reduction.

What is your plan for the network? Are you planning to use your computer as the server, or have a BIX frame? This would change your ability to use the one cable as both data and phone. If you plan to 'daisy chain' from your computer to the various rooms then you can do so as long as you plan to splice into your existing telephone wiring.

Kay

Kay, thanks for the response. Based on your comments, I may be confused. I thought the ethernet connection only used 2 of the 8 wires (ie one twisted pair) for communication. By your response, it seems that you're implying the ethernet uses all 8 wires (4 pairs ) to get it's speed. I didn't realize this.

Alll the data lines go back to a switch. My switch/router/DSL Modem combination allows all computers in the house to be networked for file sharing and internet access.

In DSL phone connections the yellow and black wires are the data lines, and the red and green are the telephone lines. You may be able to go ahead and split out the brown pair (reducing bandwith - Cat5 to Cat3 reduction) and connecting the brown pair to the red and green wires of your phone line. This is assuming that this is the configuration the telephone company uses in your area. If say, you have two separate telephone numbers in your home then the yellow and black wires would have been used to give the second line to your home, if not then they were free to use for DSL. These two (yellow and black wires) are direct-wired on the telephone company end (telephone cable coffin near your home) into a special card there for continuous data send/receive. If the yellow and black pair are used for another telephone number, they would have installed another line, more than likely only using the yellow and black wires.

I am assuming that all phones currently in your home have the filters on them. I'm thinking that you won't have to use these if you do use only the brown pair for telephone use since you will be bypassing the yellow and black data wires.

It may be easier to go ahead and use all the Cat5 pairs for the data, and then purchase standard phone line cable (not expensive) and daisy chain that throughout for phone service to the telephone jacks (still using filters at this point, too).

Please watch for other posts. They may be able to explain this better than I can.

Kay

Cat5 does indeed use all 4 pair for Tx/Rx -- see http://www.cpe.surrey.ac.uk/support/utp.htm for the pinout (as well as the two common wiring standards).

Cat3 only used 2 pair and is limited to 10 Mbit transmission speed. Even if you think this is good enough for now, please don't do it -- you'll regret it in 5 years or whoever owns the home will.

I recommend buying some Cat3 or telephone wire and pulling it. Pull another run of Cat5 too if you can afford it. Pulling a bunch of wires is about the same work as pulling one -- the difficulty is in doing it at all. At the very least you can tie a new cat5 and telephone run to the current cable, as well as a string. Pull the first cable out entirely, and then back with the string - voila, 2 cat5 and a telephone run.

BTW kaybyrd - how DSL is run to the home (1st or 2nd pair) depends entirely on the phone company and their practices. I have a single phone line and they still put my DSL on the first pair of wires. And my entire home is wired for 2 lines.

Memphis is always strange to me and how they do things. I asked when they installed it what they were planning to do, and how. In fact, my husband (data cable installer, also subcontracted out at times by BellSouth) had to fix what the installer did (rewire the box at the house correctly since they installed it backwards to their box). We had constant problems with it, too. I went with DSL simply because it came so highly recommended, and I was even told that it was better than having a cable modem. Not the case in Memphis. I rarely had service due to problems on their end. Usually the card in the cable coffin had fried. Rarely did I get a tech that even understood what he was doing.

When I moved to Mississippi I discovered that even tho we live a whole 1/4 mile from Memphis, DSL isn't offered here. I decided that I was too spoiled to the speed to go back to dial up so opted for cable modem this time. Apparently living in a smaller town has its good points and bad. Telephone service here is terrible due to not upgrading the lines, but cable is wonderful. I may have a cable outage here once a month, if that, and only during a very bad storm (someone hitting a pole or lightening striking) whereas in Memphis I quit getting cable due to rarely having service due to poor maintenance on their part.

Would the filters you use on your phones be different from the ones that I used? Mine were designed to 'disconnect' the data lines from the phone lines (connecting the phone to only one pair) as opposed to actually filtering the data from voice.

Kay

Okay maybe I can shed some light on all of this. If you ran cat 5 to every room in your house the question in what are you hooking these jacks to? If your hooking them the the DSL circuit itself you need two pairs of the wire, it is the national standard to use the Blue pair and Orange pair for your transmit and receive. The other two get coiled up inside the jack or wrapped around the cable to be used as spares in case one of the other two pairs go bad. If you have an 8 conductor phone jack (called RJ-45 jack) you wire your Orange pair to #1 and #2 and the blue pair to #4 and #5.
Orange/White to #1
White/Orange to #2
Blue/White to #4
White/Blue to #5

The only time this varies is as I said one of the pairs are bad or
there is a second DSL or T1 circuit ran into the same premise. For the second circuit then you would use the Green and Brown pairs. The only other reason the colors would be different is if it is nonstandard cable or the person who installed was not a tech.

As far as sharing the cat 5 with a DSL and a POTS line or regular phone line. You can do it but I wouldn't. You can use Cat 5 cable for a telephone line if you enjoy spending money or you have alot of equipment in your house that may cause RF interferance such as a high powered CB radio or you have a large electrical transformer in your basement. As I said, you can do it and it will work fine but it's overkill.
As far as loosing speed due to the wiring in your home, a myth unless you have bad connections. As long as everything is connected in a consistant manner with good clean tight connections chances are any reduction of speed will be cause from the provider due to equipment trouble or outside cable trouble. Wire does not create speed, the incorrect wire will create errors on the circuit and signal loss that will cause the speed to be less. When the tech installs the circuit it will be tested for errors. If you notice it is slower for some reason, call the provider and open a trouble ticket to have it tested again. They can monitor the circuit for errors or intrusive test the circuit for errors. The best test is intrusive testing but this will knock you down.

One more note on cable. For plain telephone lines, I would buy just the grey covered two pair cable. Its generally inexpensive and it will work just fine. Be consistant throughout the house and only hook up one pair to each jack to the red and green wires on the jack. Wrap the second pair around the cable or coil it inside the jack to use in case you put a staple through the cable or something that way you have a spare and don't have to rerun it again later.

I hope this has shed some light on this. If your trying to do something different I will help you out.

This is great discussion and I appreciate all the input. I am still a bit confused however....when I check out http://www.cablingdirectory.com/techinfo/ethernetcabling/ethernetcabling.htm it indicates that only 4 pins (2 pair) are used for ethernet (see RJ45 half way down the page). When I check out http://www.combsnet.com/cable/Basics/connectors.html under the section 'Why are the pairs shuffled around, instead of laid out logically?' it indicates that ethenet uses 4 wires, and pins 4 and 5 theoretically could be used for telephone.

The way my home network works is that I have a DSL modem and router that have an ethernet port to connect to my home network. This ethernet connection goes to a switch, one port on the switch runs ethernet to each room in the house.

I think I will run 2 separate (cat 5) cables to each room, one for phone, one for network. Except one problem, the kitchen has one cable running to it and there is no way I can pull a second cable. Has anyone tried having a splitter (like a phone splitter) plugged into the ethernet outlet, with an ethernet to computer connection for the network on one side of the splitter and then a phone connection on pins 4 and 5 on the other side of the splitter like is suggested by the last article . If I lose some speed at this one location, I am willing to live with that.

Try this site for a no-nonsense look at using Cat5 in a home situation.

http://www.stg.brown.edu/~sjd/wiring/CAT5-wiring.html

Maybe it can help with the KISS principal (keep it simple stupid). Sometimes its hard to explain when you do this everyday in hospitals, banks and other large corporations that move tremendous amounts of data daily. Even small business' move a lot of data during the day and it becomes more complex than moving data in a home since (considering your not running all the computers all the time) the data transfer and types are different in a home situation.

I thought about running a network throughout my home for my kids, but decided against it since I can't seem to keep it to the basics which would be sufficient for a home.

Keep reading and researching, also keep asking questions until you understand the principals of the wiring and then the correct wiring for your network today as well as where you think you may go with it (expansion? etc.) and it will become clearer to you what you need to do for your situation.

Good luck, and be patient. I know that you are eager to finish up the wiring and getting the network up and running.

Kay

On the Telco side (everything UP TO the router) of a circuit on 2 of the 4 pairs are used. On the users side (10 base T port on router) and everything after uses 3 pair of the four.

Telco side
Pin 1 white orange/ orange white (called the Ring or (R))
Pin 2 orange white/ white orange (called the Tip or (T))
Pin 3 unused
Pin 4 blue white/white blue (R)
Pin 5 white blue/blue white (T)
Pin 6 unused
Pin 7 unused
Pin 8 unused

User side
Pin 1 white orange/ orange white
Pin 2 orange white/ white orange
Pin 3 unused
Pin 4 blue white/white blue
Pin 5 white blue/blue white
Pin 6 unused
Pin 7 white brown/brown white
Pin 8 brown white/white brown

To wire cable
With the tab facing down and going from left to right, #1 being on the left
1 White Orange
2 Orange White
3 White Green
4 Blue White
5 White Blue
6 Green White
7 White Brown
8 Brown White

That is how all the wiring to the jacks is done and how to make the cable.
If you want to use the White Green pair to wire to a second jack you could. You would not loose speed. Even though you use the green pair when you make a cable, that pair really doesn't do anything. If they aren't wired to the jack you won't loose anything. The only thing that would be bad is if one pair went bad then you do not have a spare. As far as putting a splitter in a ethernet jack. The splitter is designed to be used on a 2 pair circuit, even thought it will surely plug into the jack it won't do what you want it to do. It merely will take pins 4 and 5 put them on on plug and 3 and 6 and use them for another. I think your other idea is much better to run two cables and use two seperate jacks. Your results will be better and you will have piece of mind. When you get too creative it only confuses everyone who has to work on it after you, its best to stick with the standards. Anyway, I hope this answers your questions for you. Any further questions feel free to ask.

NOTE: I have emailed the monerators and have asked them if they would create a Telecom forum for questions like this. He did reply and said it was a good idea. I would expect that it will be done soon. Hope you all drop by when it pops up! Thanks!

I would like to make a correction to all my wiring above. It appears I was a bit too tired when I typed all of that. I didn't need to add the colors after the slashes.

Telco side, you can wire all 8 wires if you would like, actually I always do but 3, 6, 7, 8 but they aren't need for the T1 to work.
Pin 1 white orange (called the Ring or (R))
Pin 2 orange white (called the Tip or (T))
Pin 3 unused
Pin 4 blue white (R)
Pin 5 white blue (T)
Pin 6 unused
Pin 7 unused
Pin 8 unused

User side, This is the side that goes from the 10-base T side of the router to a Hub or RJ-45 Phone Jack (Called a RJ-48C or RJ-48X). Again, 4,5,7 & 8 don't need to be wired. I usually coil them up inside to jack to be used as spares later.

Pin 1 white orange
Pin 2 orange white
Pin 3 white green
Pin 4 unused
Pin 5 unused
Pin 6 green white
Pin 7 unused
Pin 8 unused

To wire a crossover cable. If you go directly from a 10-base T port to a PC then a crossover cable is needed. A crossover cable is wired 1-8 as shown in the first group on one side of the cable and 1-8 on the second group for the other end.
With the tab facing down and going from left to right, #1 being on the left. When wiring a cable to a RJ-45 connector it's best to wire all 8 wires so the wires do not come out from movement. It's made for all 8 wires so I use all 8 wires even though they are not needed.

Group 1

1 White Orange
2 Orange White
3 White Green
4 Blue White
5 White Blue
6 Green White
7 White Brown
8 Brown White

To wire it with 4 wires, leave out 4, 5, 7 & 8

Group 2

1 White Green
2 Green White
3 White Orange
4 Blue White
5 White Blue
6 Orange White
7 White Brown
8 Brown White

Again, to wire it with 4 wires, leave out 4, 5, 7 & 8

There of course is an exception to wiring cables like this. If you have what they call a "Powered Ethernet" then you CANNOT leave the four wires out, they are ALL used.

Now, these are the Industry Standard color codes. This is what everyone has been using since Ma Bell has been around. I have seen people do it different and use many kinds of cable and it may work. After all the signals don't care what color the wire actually is but the connections still match on both sides. I know this is correct this time since I am awake this time. Sorry about the last one. I'll be more carefull in the future. Hope this helps answer all your questions. Good luck!

Phonetek, thanks for the correction, I was very confused since I found about a million places on the internet that showed the ethernet (10 baseT) side uses 4 wires. I was really trying to figure out what I was missing but I think it is clear now that I got your response. It boils down to I COULD use the 4 and 5 pins for telephone EXCEPT that I have been warned that especially when when the phone rings, the induced voltage could cause data problems or even damage the computer equipment (a technician from Smarthome and another from Leviton sent me a response based on emails I sent them).

I believe Zathrus is correct below in the link that he gives in that while 4 pair are specified for RJ45 connection, the web link doesn't go into the fact that only 2 pair are used.

So I guess I go with 2 cat 5, one for phone and one for data. I will use cat 5 for the phone cause the incremental cost is pretty small (and maybe someday someone will want to convert it to data for some reason). The kitchen remains a dilema since I can't get another set of wires in there, I'll have to take another look and try to figure something else out.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Sorry about the confusion from me -- after looking at that site again it does, indeed, show only 2 pair being used.

Why can't you pull a second line to the kitchen? If there's one line already, you can probably pull another, although it may not be the easiest (or most fun) task in the world.

Taking a fourth look , I seen now the 2 pair. I was mostly looking at the top diagram and missed it.

As for getting to the kitchen, the house is already finished, I have to get to an 'island' in the kitchen (that is where the laptop will sit). I have to get from the attic above the second story down to the first floor. The only route to the island is via a post that sits next to the island. The post is framed with 2x4x and is load bearing (hold up part of the second story). The header above the post is 3 - 2 x 12s (I would have to somehow get through those to get to the post. I might be able to find a way by cutting out select pieces of drywall to drill holes through the header or next to the header but it will be tough. I'm going to try to do some exploring on it this weekend. The one existing line is for phone and it was put in when the house was new. It follows a very circuitous route with about a thousand turns so I couldn't pull it back out with a string attached to it and pull in a new one.

This is a direct quote from the linksys website:

"A Category 5 cable has 8 thin, color-coded wires inside that run from one end of the cable to the other. Only wires 1, 2, 3, and 6 are used by Ethernet networks for communication. Although only four wires are used, if the cable has 8 wires, all the wires have to be connected in both jacks."

I figure people who make the hardware ought to know how the cable works, if they say it needs all 8 wires, it probably needs all 8 wires..