Gas and Oil Home Heating Furnaces - A/C problems--water seeping from carpet

Help!!!!! Water is seeping up through my carpet near my central a/c!! My husband has crawled up into the bottom of the closet and saw water leaking from the blower area. We are definitely on a budget and would like to attempt to repair this ourselves if possible! Any ideas on what to do??

Thanks for your assistance in advance!

Check the drain line that comes from the blower assembly (evaporator coil specifically). It is normally a copper or pvc pipe about 3/4 to 1 inch diameter that runs into the foundation into the sewer system or it may just be piped to somewhere outside of the house. If it becomes clogged, condesation water will back up in the unit until it overflows, then out on to the floor.

There is water all over the floor for me as well.

This happened once before a few years ago. I cleaned out the pan and everything worked fine after that, but that isn't working this time. After cleaning everything today, there is more water on the floor rather than everything working right.

Is gunk in the lines the problem?

What should be done to clean the pvc pipe and clear hose of the gunk that is in there?

I cleaned out the condensation pan, the float and whatever else is there. There is slimy stuff coming out of the condensation hose outside as well. I cleaned the pvc pipe that sets in the condensation pan the best I could, but it was still very dirty farther up than I could reach.

The unit is 8 years old, Heil, model no. CA5536VKAI.

Is it time to call the heating and cooling man?

Thanks for your help.

:(

Here's some more things to look into:

1. is the cooling coil so dirty that the water is dripping off the coil instead of running down the fins and into the drain pan?

2. Is water spilling out of the drain pan before it gets to the drain line connection?

3. Has the bottom of the drain pan rusted thru?

4. Is the unit sitting level? How about the coil assembly inside the the unit? It's not tilted or sagging?

5. If it seems like the drain line is still clogged, pour some bleach into it, let it sit for a while and flush it out with a garden hose.

6. Does the drain line have a trap?

7. Is the drain line sloped in the direction of flow?

Thanks for the quick reply.

It's running okay now, but I'm sure that the pvc pipe still has gunk in it. After pouring bleach/water into the plastic condensation pan, it flowed out of the clear hose and emptied outside very well. No gunk came out. ( I was inside pouring filling the pan, so didn't see it myself.)

About the coils, which are above the furnace part of the unit, it's going to be a little complicated to take the cover off because of the way it's set up. The vent pipe is in front of it for one thing. Should I accept the challenge and do whatever it takes to see inside? :eek:

Drain line- I'm not sure what you mean by that. The pvc? The clear hose? Being I'm not sure what the "drain line" is, I can't answer most of your questions. BTW, we can't bring a garden hose into the house to flush anything. At least, I don't think we can. I can only imagine more unwanted water on the floor and elsewere.

The condensation pan is level, although I put some bolts under it for air to circulate under it. The floor where the furnace and all the water is is particle board. :( It's swollen. :(

Uh, oh, DH just came by and said that he found the leak. Well, I just went and looked. There is a pipe that has a black covering on it and there is some water on the covering where it turns 90º and then goes up to the attic. It's wet, but not a constant drip, which wouldn't explain ALL the water on the floor, two times in two days. :(

Thanks for your help,
~mlminin

Let's see if I am understanding correctly. You have a condesation pan adjacent to the furnace that the water from from the cooling coil drain flows into and then the water flows from the condensation pan to the outside? I need a better decription of how the water gets from the cooling coil to the outside.

"You have a condesation pan adjacent to the furnace that the water from from the cooling coil drain flows into and then the water flows from the condensation pan to the outside? "

Correct.

"I need a better decription of how the water gets from the cooling coil to the outside."

Good question... I hope I can describe it to you sufficiently. I'm not very good at this, without having it right in front of me.

There is a pvc pipe coming out of the upper unit of our AC/furnace unit and is located near the bottom. It is horizontal before it turns downward and into the pan, which is on the floor. On the upper unit about 10 in. above the pvc, there is a copper pipe (tubing?) that is about 3/8 in. diameter. About 4 in. above the copper is a pipe that is covered with a black material and is about the same diameter as the pvc. Both go up into the ceiling where the rest of the 'stuff' is. The clear hose and other things come out of the outside wall near the outside unit.

I just checked and the water at the bend of the black covered pipe is very minimal. A container is under it to catch any drips and if it isn't dry, it nearly is. We are using the AC now and I'm not seeing new water on the floor, but I'm still concerned about cleaning out the pvc.

I hope all of this helps.

Ok -now I understand. The cooling coil is located on the other side of the cover where the 3 pipes come out. The pvc pipe is the drain pipe and the other 2 are the freon lines. If you were to peel back a little bit the insulation on the larger freon line, you'll see that it is also copper. Does the clear hose also go up into the attic or does it go out the outside wall? The drain pan that I was refering to in my previous post is at the bottom of the cooling coil and is actually part of the cooling coil assembly. They get clogged with gunk and often need cleaning. I understand that getting the cover off of the front of the casing that contains the cooling coil is difficult, especially if the flue pipe is in front of it. Can you disassemble the pvc pipe where it connects to the drain outlet and just stick your shop vac hose on the opening and try to suck out some junk? Even if you have to cut the pvc pipe to get it apart, pvc is easy to reassemble. In my previous post, I also mentioned a trap in the pvc drain line. Normally, drain lines are trapped but I think in your case, the indoor fan is at the bottom of the furnace and the air flow would exert a pressure instead of a suction on the drain and so you may not need the trap. When the drain is upstream of the fan, the drain line has to trapped, otherwise air is sucked up the drain pipe which prevents the water from flowing out. The broken piece of insulation on the larger freon line [that line is called the suction line and the smaller uninsulated one is the liquid line] would not cause the flooding you experienced. The insulation is easy to fix, but you'll have to shut down the unit and have the pipe dry. You want to cut out a section of the insulation. Take an adjustable wrench and use it like a cailper to determine the outside diameter of the pipe. Got to Home Depot and buy a length of insulation in the right size and also a small can of the insulation glue which is a contact type cement. Cut off the length you need and then slit it length wise. Fit it on, then glue both sides of the slit with lite coating but don't let the edged touch yet. When the glue is tacky, press the slit closed. Do the same thing at both ends. Then tape over the whole thing with some black plastic electrical tape but don't compress the insulation too much. If the flooding persists, you may need to have a service guy come out and see if the cooling coil needs to be removed for cleaning or if maybe the cooling coil drain pan has rusted thru. I hope not because it can get expensive.

Thank you, bigjohn, for your help. I'm going to print your instructions and see what we can do. They sound very easy to follow. I'll check back to let you know how it goes.

Hi bigjohn,

I was just reading the printout and noticed that you asked me some questions that I didn't answer.

"Does the clear hose also go up into the attic or does it go out the outside wall?

It goes up into the attic with the freon pipe and what appears to be a brown wire about 1/8 in. in diameter. BTW, Now that it's day, I looked at the pipes outside and they don't come out of the wall, but out of the soffit (spelling?) and down the along the siding.

"Can you disassemble the pvc pipe where it connects to the drain outlet and just stick your shop vac hose on the opening and try to suck out some junk?"

I just looked and this does not look easy.
:( The pvc is next to a wall and between the pvc and me is a metal pipe (for air draw, I think), that is clamped to the wall and is about 6 in. diameter. It goes into the attic. It doesn't look like I'm going to be able to move it out of the way without detaching from the ceiling or above. Now what? :confused:

BTW, I didn't describe the pvc accurately. Everything is correct except that the pvc has two 90º elbows between the part that comes out of the unit and the part that goes down to the condensation pan on the floor. I think they did it that way to make room for the 6 in. pipe that I described in the previous paragraph. Are the elbows glued in place? How do I disassemble them? After all that, I haven't answered your question. I'm not sure if I can or not, based on what I just told you. I'm pretty sure I can borrow a shop vac. (I'm a gardener, not a plumber, but I'm learning.)

The suction line, (I'm learning the vocabulary), isn't completely covered outside in spots, so I could see that it's copper, as you said. It is wet. Is that normal? Maybe that's why it's covered. Should the freon line be completely covered? Maybe it's not completely covered in the attic where I can't see it. :eek:

I need to go. Will check back later. Thank you very much for your help.

OK- so the plastic condensation pan that's on the floor must have a little pump mounted on top of it. We call this a condensate pump and it's job is to pump the water to the outside. There should be a float mechanism inside the pan which turns the pump on and off. They will get crudded up with slimy stuff and stop working. Also, the intake on the pump gets clogged up. After you clean out the pan and pump and reassmble, pour some water into the pan to make sure the float rises and the pump operates. The fittings on the pvc drain line should be glued together, otherwise they'll leak. You can cut the pipe in between fittings with a hacksaw and stick the nozzle end of the shop vac onto the end of the pipe and try sucking gunk out that way. Then you just put the pipe back together with a coupling which you glue on. Any hardware store/home center will have fittings, glue and cleaner. You'll probably have to shut the a/c down because the ends of the pipe have to be dry in order for the glue to stick. You swab both the end of the pipe and the insides of the coupling with the cleaner and wait for it to evaporate. Then coat the end of the pipe with glue and assemble. The glue sets very fast [like in about a minute] so you have to work quickly once you've applied the glue. You want to plan each step in advance. Also, detach the plastic hose that goes outside and blow it out. The suction line wants to be insulated from the furnace all the way to the outdoor unit. The suction line needs to be insulated for a couple reasons. First is so it isn't dripping water all over and the other is so the system isn't picking up additional heat from the surrounding air. I forgot to mention that the insulation comes in 6 foot lengths and, in addition to various diameters, it also comes in various wall thicknesses. You want at least 1/2" wall thickness. The 3/8" stuff will sweat in a hot attic. It sounds like the insulation is deteriorated and you may want to plan on repalcing it along the entire length of the suction line. Be sure to buy the same type you have now. It's closed cell foam rubber pipe insulation. Two brand names are Armaflex and Rubatex. Don't use fiberglass pipe insulation, it won't work. The 1/8" brown cable is the control wires going from the furnace to the outdoor unit.

Okay, I'm back after being gone most of the day. So far, so good in regard to the floor: no new water and the dehumidier is doing its job in the closet where the AC/furnace are.

You have given very clear instructions and I appreciate your patience.

Yesterday, when I first asked for help with this, I cleaned out the pan and the parts that are in there, but didn't take apart the pump intake. I was using an old toothbrush. I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow and see what I can do about that. After putting it all back together last night, it wouldn't work, that is, the pump wouldn't go on even after pouring a quart of water in the pan through the little hole. I thought I had probably broken something. Then I realized that the cover needed to be put back on the lower section of the main unit, which I had taken off to look at the condition of the floor. I ran four quarts of water/ bleach through it and it came out fine outside each time.

You said to detach the plastic hose (the liquid line, right?) and blow it out. It goes from the pan to the attic, across to the soffit and down to the outside unit. :eek: How does one blow out a hose like that that is probably about ten yards long? :confused:

Another question that I need clarified. You asked, "Can you disassemble the pvc pipe where it connects to the drain outlet and just stick your shop vac hose on the opening and try to suck out some junk?" "drain outlet"? You mean where the pvc connects to the upper unit that holds the coils? If so, I don't know, but could try. It's going to be very tight for working space when it comes to the drain pipe because of that 6" metal pipe that blocks my way in being able to get to it easily. I'll try that tomorrow, too. In fact, I don't see how anything can be done without removing that 6" pipe. It's caulked where it meets the ceiling. I guess I'm going to have to do what I don't want to do and remove it for this. (That means getting in the attic and it's very hot right now.)

We still are not sure where the leak originated. It seems that it would be from the condensate pan, but I'm not sure that is what happened. You had mentioned a rusted drip pan under the coils. Do I dare bring that up?

Back to this tomorrow...

Actually, it sounds like you have the problem solved. Over the NET, you kinda have to take a shotgun approach with solutions and try to cover all the bases. If you have water pumping out the clear hose then it's not obstructed. Nomally, a service tech would have a small bottle of dry nitogen on the truck and would use that pressure to blow out a long hose or drain line. Yes, the drain outlet is where the pvc pipe connects to the cooling coil. If the space is too tight, then just stick the shop vac hose on the end of the pipe where it goes down to the condesate pump. I wouldn't take the pump itself apart, just use the shop vac on the intake. I wouldn't worry about the drain pan at the cooling coil being rusted thru. It sounds like you've fixed the main problem. If the drain pan were clogged up or rusted thru, you would still be getting copious amounts of water on the floor. Now, all you have to do is concentrate on repairing the insulation which you probably could delay until cooler weather.

Oh, my. What a relief. I wasn't expecting it to be this easy to fix the problem. The hardest part was trying to put everything in words so that it was accurate and understandable. Thank you very, very much for your help. I have learned a lot and without an outrageous plumbing bill, at that. Thank you.

I had wondered why we weren't getting more water on the floor if the pan had been rusted, so am very grateful to know that isn't a possibility.

It's also a relief to know that we don't have to go into the attic at this time. :D It 's going to 95º today and the humidity is very high.

Thank you very much,
Gardener/aka apprentis plumber :rolleyes:

Okay...looks like our drain pan is busted! On other posts, I noticed that there were "$$$". How difficult can it be to replace the drain pan? If I can get my hands on the part, could you guide me through it??

Hoping for the best...
Tasha:(

Hi Tasha:

How do you know for sure that the drain pan is busted? Is it rusted thru or just overflowing? Can I assume you've followed the posts and have cleaned out the drain pan, that water is flowing down the fins to the drain pan and not dripping off and you have flushed out the drain line? If so, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. The drain pan and the cooling coil are an intregal assembly. IOW- if the drain pan is rusted thru, then the entire cooling coil and drain pan assembly has to be replaced. Look at the post under blueiris for some tips on how to pour a colored dye into the drain pan to prove it's rusted thru. Let us know what you find.

Ugh!!!!!!! I didn't want to hear that! LOL We just bought this house three weeks ago...."as is".....what can I say?

My hubby had a friend of the family who works on a/c came over and took a look at the situation. The family friend said it looked like the drain pan was busted. (They blew the lines and a little gunk did come out) Before we called the friendly Carrier people, my hubby was going to try to get a little more of the gunk out of the lines...(aren't we hilarious???!!!)

I'll keep ya posted though! :)

Okay, BigJohn....I'm back! I cannot see how to pour the colored dye into the drain pan to see if the pan is rusted through. We have been putting containers to catch the leaks and towels under the furnace unit to sop up some of the water.

Let me try to give you a mental picture of what this unit looks like: The coils/drain pan unit is located on the first tier of the furnace unit. The blower/wiring is located on the second tier. I have taken the cover of of the first tier. The coils look like they could use a good cleaning. Beyond that, I cannot see any other parts (i.e. drain pan). There is a pvc pipe that runs out on the left hand side of the unit. It is the drain line. It runs parallel to the unit down through the wooden frame that the furnace unit sits upon and bends slightly at the bottom. (approximately 30 degree angle). It is connected to what appears to look like a thin, thin garden hose (though not as malliable) type of line which apparently leads the water to the pipes and then somewhere out of the house. (I have yet to see an outside drain pipe of any type around the house.)

Upon following that pvc pipe, under the furnace platform, one can look up and see some type of metal barrel thingie which is attached to the bottom of the second tier of the unit. I can see where water is rolling off of that barrel and unto the floor of the closet. I cannot see where the water is coming from however. I am supposing that it is seeping through the unit. It is enough water however to make a constant drip-drip.

I have "snaked" the drain pipe as far as I could take it (I'm assuming that I came up as far as the 90 degree bend in the pvc pipe at which point it is connected to a small black pipe that leads directly underneath the coils.) There was a small amount of sludge and gunk that came out.

Here's another grand discovery! There is an electric switch in this closet that cuts off power to the whole unit. (Not only can you turn the unit on and off at the thermostat, but at this electrical switch, too!) Is this customary? Could this be evidence of a continual problem???

At the conclusion of this writing, I will be using a shop-vac to suck out as much gunk as I can (assuming that there is some in the drain pipe at the 90 degree bend). Am I on the right track? Is there something else that I am missing? Something that I am not seeing?

You have been such a help already. Once again...thanks!

It sounds like you're saying that the furncae is vertical with the cooling coil on top, the burner section in the middle and the fan/blower section at the bottom? Sound right? At any rate, it also sounds like you have been able to take the cover off of the cooling coil section. Is the cooling coil in the shape of an A? The drain pan is at the bottm edge of the cooling coil, the same part that the drain outlet is connected to. Is the pan full of water and overflowing? Also, notice how the pan is actually shaped like a square? [I'm assuming an A shaped coil. If you have what we call a slant coil, which is a single cooling coil section that lays at about a 45 degree angle across the cabinet, then there will only be a drain pan at the bottom of the coil.] There has to be a way for the water to flow to the side where the drain outlet is. IOW- make sure that the entire drain pan is not clogged. Also, if the cooling coil is very dirty, then the water may be dripping off of the the coil instead of running down the fins to the drain pan. The barrel looking thingy you describe is the blower housing. If water is dripping off this housing, then it is leaking down inside the cabinet either because the drain pan is overflowing, ithe drain pan has rusted through or the water is dripping off of the cooling coil. You should be able to look along the edges of the drain pan where the cooling coil intersects it and see if the water is running over. This is the place where you can carefully pour in some colored water, milk or maybe a colored juice or Kool Aide to see if it runs down into the cabinet. You have to go slowly and not overflow the drain pan with the dye. If you can get a garden hose with a nozzzle into the closet, try flushing out thru the thin pipe to the outside. It has to exit outside somewhere unless maybe they ran it to a french drain? The thin piping is probably black plastic? Now, the electric switch you're talking about; it looks like a regular light switch? It's normal to have one near the furnace. The electrical code requires a shutoff switch near the unit. At this point you need to determine why the water is running down. I hope that is not because the drain pan has rusted thru. The cooling coil and drain pan are an intregal assembly. IOW- you would have to replace the entire cooling coil. $$$

Yes, the coils are slanted in the shape of an "A".

We have kept the unit off all day today. There was water in the drain pan up to the first joint of my pinkie finger. Now, there is none. Right now, we do not hear any dripping in the furnace closet.

Additionally, no one we know owns a shop vac...so that idea was a bust. We did manage to free a little more gunk from the pvc drain pipe.

I will try pouring the colored water solution in the unit tomorrow. My head is pounding because of the heat/stress/heat! LOL

I will keep you informed. Thanks, BigJohn!

See if you can dam up the outlet when you pour in the dye.